For centuries, religious relics have been the only means by which devout followers could interact with the divine. Let us journey into some of the gross holy relics. The bones of saints, the milk of the virgin Mary, perhaps a little finger of St Thomas.
St Francis Xavier’s toes were a big hit too. This saint died of exhaustion in 1552 after converting communities across Asia and leaving myriad churches in his wake. One devoted woman visiting his corpse bent to kiss his foot, bit off his toe and took it back to Portugal to display it in her own chapel.
Cuz that’s normal.
Even the nipples of a pious Hungarian princess became the subject of pilgrimages. Elizabeth of Thuringia devoted her life to helping the poor and died all too young at the hands of her brutal caretaker. It seems a tragic death makes one even more holy because mobs of Catholics couldn’t get enough of her. Just one strand of hair, a fingernail, perhaps a nibble of a nipple?
But why stop at blood, toes and nipples?
What about something even more precious? Like Jesus Christ’s foreskin.
The holy prepuce. The divine turtleneck. Now that’s a relic that would put a ring around your head.
Legend has it that Jesus’ foreskin has been responsible for perfumed mists, freak storms and the rings of Saturn. One account suggested that rubbing it upon the eyelids of the blind could make them see. So, foresight?
Now, JC’s circumcision was mentioned in the Bible and it’s depicted in numerous famous paintings, but no one talked about what happened to the offcuts. Many churches throughout Europe have claimed to be in ownership of the holy foreskin… but where is it really?
Like art travelling between galleries, early reports trace JC’s tip from a Byzantine Empress to King Charlemagne to Pope Leo III. They say it went from Rome to England and back to Rome again, found in Calcata in 1557. It was hidden in the cell of a captured German soldier who flogged it during the sacking of Rome. So sneaky.
By the way, we know this particular foreskin actually belonged to JC himself because Saint Bridget of Sweden had a vision of the Virgin Mary in the late fourteenth century who told her it was. Solid evidence.
Now, as time moved forward, science became more popular and the church became a tad self-conscious about JC’s private parts. Under pressure to banish Catholic practices that could be seen as culturally backward, the Vatican issued a decree in 1900 threatening ex-communication to anyone who wrote about the holy foreskin. Harsh but fair.
But then in the 1960s, a bunch of hippies made a big deal about it again. The turtleneck was back in fashion!
Calcata’s local priest, Father Dario Magnoni took to storing the holy bangle in a box under his bed or in the back of his wardrobe. Hmmm.
But then, before the Feast of the Holy Circumcision in 1983 (it was a kinda big deal back then), Father Magnoni discovered it was GONE.
No one wanted to talk about it. People in the village were upset. Rumours were rampant.
Did the Vatican steal Jesus’ foreskin so people would shut up about the Saviour’s penis?
What TF happened to the holy turtleneck?
SOURCES:
The World’s Grossest Catholic Relics
https://historycollection.com/worlds-grossest-catholic-relics/16/
NOTE – the pictures Rod showed Will came from here
The Holy Foreskin: Where is the Last Piece of the Body of Christ?
Whatever Happened To Jesus Christ's Foreskin?
How Jesus' foreskin became one of Christianity's most-coveted relics — and then disappeared
The Holy Prepuce: A Lesser Known Relic of Jesus Christ
https://ucatholic.com/blog/the-holy-prepuce-a-lesser-known-relic-of-jesus-christ/
Fore Shame
Did the Vatican steal Jesus’ foreskin so people would shut up about the saviour’s penis?
https://slate.com/human-interest/2006/12/who-stole-jesus-foreskin.html
Palazzo, R. P. (2005). The veneration of the Sacred Foreskin (s) of Baby Jesus—a documented analysis. In Multicultural Europe and Cultural Exchange: in the Middle Ages and Renaissance (pp. 155-176).
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Rod 00:00
So I know people listening in the future right? But for us, it's good Friday. AKA, reverse Christmas
will 00:13
No, no one calls it reverse Christmas.
Rod 00:15
They will it's gonna catch on. Like Chairster because it's non sexual.
Will 00:16
I know. I know it is the putting Jesus back in the cave. Yeah. All right, reverse Christmas, reverse Christmas.
Rod 00:25
Welcome to reverse Christmas Day. So of course because it's reverse Christmas day. aka Excellent Friday. Yes. We're going to four day weekend, four day weekend. So we're going to go into a journey into a little bit of the history of Christianity. Just one element. Okay. All right. And I'm doing this out of respect. Obviously. You shouldn't say that.
will 00:47
Because I know it's not true.
Rod 00:49
It could be. So we're gonna get into gross Christian holy relics.
Will 00:57
Sure. Sure.
Rod 00:59
We'll warm up. Okay. St. Francis, Javier. That is how the Spaniard said that wasn't wrong, Xavier Xavier. So Frank was a Jesuit. He did a lot of missions he went to Goa in India. And he converted huge numbers of people in Goa. Then he cruises across Asia. I think basically all of it. When are we talking? The past one centuries ago. 1500s.
Will 01:27
Thank you.
Rod 01:27
And he basically left churches in his wake like like Johnny Appleseed, but with Christians and churches throwing churches. Okay, well, he's very busy man. And he did this for 15-20 years. Converting, converting, converting, converting, okay. Plus, he had a mission, he did have a mission, and he ended up dying of exhaustion. Anyway, that, of course, makes him super worthy, worthy, worthy of respect, and so forth. So his body was put on display in God. 1000s of people travelled to pay their respects to mourn and to kind of soak up the energy be near him of the man. Yeah. And the man the mistress might have molecules of him wafting off and it did because, you know, what he was doing was 1500s I don't think they're refrigeration technology was good.
Will 02:11
No, no, but they were used to earthy smells back then. Like I just think if you if you I did, if you smell have some friends, you know, someone stepped through a wormhole in time and lands from here today. I think the number one thing I did look around, just go. Why doesn't everything smell like? It would be such a pong.
Rod 02:31
I'd be horrified. Imagine going to New York 150 years ago, you'd be like, it smells like the worst farm.
Will 02:35
Well, apparently, apparently ancient Rome. And this is like 2000 years ago. You could smell it long before you could see it.
Rod 02:41
Because of the perfume?
Will 02:43
Yes, the fancy perfumes they use. Amber gris.
Rod 02:46
Well, so one of the villages had one of his fingernails, because Holy relic, a part of the body
Will 02:54
Had a fingernail?
Rod 02:56
As relic, to kind of go this was part of him, therefore, okay, worthy. And at one point, what's been described as an overly devoted woman was visiting his corpse. And she bent over to kiss his foot. And while she did she bit one of his toes off.
Will 03:13
So you're going in with the plan, you're going in with a plan there is no moment when in the moment of religious ecstasy, you decide to go further. Like kiss kiss to bite to know you went in with the plan to
Rod 03:25
Religious fervour will do strange things to a person. And so she took it back to Portugal put it in its own chapel and basically display.
Will 03:32
Did she keep it in her mouth the whole time?
Rod 03:34
God I hope so. Like this. Truthfully, I mentioned the taste oh, anyway, she would get people to come in and they charge money and apparently still goes on today. That's pretty good. Next one since St Januarius or St Januarius. So he was old Bishop of Benevento. And he was one of the apparently many early Christians executed by Emperor Diocletian. Okay, described as quite Blood for blood thirsty. So Diocletian originally was going to feed him to the bears.
Will 04:08
Sure. I don't know if I'm more lions at least I guess they want to eat me. Bears. I feel like they're going for honey and I'm just in their way.
Rod 04:16
I think honey in people doesn't everything.
Will 04:20
So first, first you fill the person with honey, then get the best of...
Rod 04:24
Honey people. So he was lucky though because he was only instead he was imprisoned and beheaded.
Will 04:30
So yeah, took the light version. They didn't have bears around that day. But bears work could you imagine like in your in your, your prison execution schedule and you're like, Damn, we don't have enough bears to carry out the bear executions today. Just behead them. We need to...
Rod 04:43
I told you, four more beers.
Will 04:46
You know, there's a little Neville in there, like some bureaucrat that was meant to bring four bears today and they forgot
Rod 04:52
No, no. This was always going to be a six bear day a six bear day. No, no, I don't have 10 It's six. So a woman Legends some legends anyway, so a woman named Eusebia collected the blood that was gushing from his neck after the chop. Oh, I don't think all of it just some little vials and now they are cherished relic in Naples, who apparently it says Naples purchased them in the fifth century. So I assume the city, vase leaves or something. And as you'd expect over the centuries, the blood kind of dried out. Except three days the three days of feasting for St Januarius it was and the vials get held aloft. Yeah, and they marched them around and apparently bubble and fizzle and turn liquid.
Will 05:32
Oh, do they? Yeah, maybe. Maybe they do.
Rod 05:34
No, no, they do. Don't maybe Faith Day, Faith Day. And so it's literally apparently happens all the time. And everyone's very excited. And weirdly, they've never allowed science to check it out.
Will 05:46
That is so strange. I know. That is so strange, because I assume you would really want to know the truth of why they do bubble.
Rod 05:51
I do. But apparently, religion and science at times. Yeah. Don't quite ride on the same train. Okay. To knowledge Town. Why did you start with blood and ties that Elizabeth of Thuringia? Yeah, 1200s 1207-31 quite young Hungarian Princess. She's very happily married. Pious as hell and really generous to the poor, okay, and renowned for his insanely. She says wonderful, she seems like a lovely lady. Then her very pious husband, Louis IV of Thuringia, went on a crusade and was killed okay. And she refused re-marry again, which is apparently not cool. And she was taken under the care of quote brutal and zealous confessor Conrad of Marburg. Oh, it wasn't great. So he was a total fucker and mechanisms of torture and horrible things.
Will 06:44
Jesus. She just doesn't want to get married and he...
Rod 06:47
Well it was the 1200's therefore, evil. She died at 24. Probably as a result of the way he engineered her ongoing life.
Will 06:58
Jesus Christ. 24. She's been she's been married, beloved, widowed three kids two I believe three kids and then tortured to death by 24. They lived very quickly back then I got on with my belly. What do you play video games until you're 24 Then what if something like that? And then maybe you get a job in your 60s and then you're forced
will 07:19
Very slow.
Rod 07:21
Yeah, well, they didn't have TV.
Will 07:23
Yeah, that's true.
Rod 07:23
That can be quite distracting. But because she was legendary for generosity, ministrations to the poor, et cetera et cetera her death made her super popular in Hungary and beyond the poor the needy etc When this chicks awesome so within hours of her death and mobs of Catholics trying to get near her body dislike Yeah, shall we want to absorb like with all of this special stuff, get a toenails and I want you know, if you touch it, you know, cute or blessed or worse. Oh, yeah. But then it got a bit frenetic. So they grabbed locks of their hair, her fingernails.
Will 07:55
Oh, man, okay, okay, I go. Okay. Yeah,
Rod 07:58
but the real historic claim to fame. Her nipples.
Will 08:06
Like I get, I get, you know, yeah, there's a body there and you're grabbing bits. Do you grab an innocuous bit or do you grab a cool bit struggling nipples? What do you do you just go your shoulders or something like that. And it's like that you look normal that if you could jump, I just want to shoulder
Rod 08:20
what a nipple you can kind of shoulder you gotta get in there with a hacksaw and
Will 08:24
But it feels really creepy and pervy. If you're still in your nipple, even if you're even if you're doing it for religious fervour, grabbing a nipple is a little bit onpoint
Rod 08:33
Not only grabbing, removing it from the body, yeah, okay. The slicing action, but these became subjects of pilgrimages.
Will 08:41
Of course they did. I'm gonna go, what are you doing this weekend? I'm going to go and see
Rod 08:46
The holy nipples of Thuringia.
Will 08:49
Are they? Are they displayed together? Or separately? I don't know. And are they the appropriate distance apart?
Rod 08:53
I'm gonna say photons, you know if they actually had a spooky distance if you turn one in Japan, the one in Naples spins in the opposite direction.
Will 09:01
Do you really wonder that you really wonder Science Podcast man. If somehow...
Rod 09:07
Spooky nipple action at a distance.
Will 09:10
That's how Einstein came up with 30,000 times. He liked those nipples.
Rod 09:16
Now, some relics. I mean, this is great. They came from saints and stuff, but but there are some that are even closer to the Lord Himself. Okay, so there was a big brouhaha awesome countenance kind of there was a brouhaha over containers believed to hold samples of Mary's breast milk.
Will 09:35
Gee I hadn't heard that one before.
Rod 09:37
Try and buy that at the hipster markets.
Will 09:39
No, just to just to just to know Jesus had a whole bunch of brothers and sisters I think, I don't know one older brother, which is which is with at least Christ. His name was John
Rod 09:49
Of course it was.
Will 09:51
Can't be older, because she was a virgin, but maybe I know his brother. I think his dad Yeah, he's kids from another marriage, his human dad and What is godly dad? It's got that was his first son. We're all God's children. This is very convoluted. Sorry for getting all the religion bits wrong here.
Rod 10:07
How do you know? I sound right.
Will 10:09
But at what point are you collecting marriage breastmilk? Because you collect it, you steal it stealing it from Jesus's, like Jesus is on the boob. And then you say, sorry, Jesus, you're going to be famous later, I'm going to steal a little bit of this your mind? Or is it something like Jesus is old and like 30 and doing his good stuff, and you're like, I'm gonna go back, go back and get some breast milk from I feel like
Rod 10:32
He never stopped breastfeeding. So if you keep going, it keeps getting different times. And when you rummage around in this world, which I did, I didn't realise until a couple of days ago that I was actually doing an Easter episode by accident. So I'm rummage around in this world of gross Christian relic sorry, Christian bodypart relics.
Will 10:52
Amazing. Not gross, so grossed out by the human body.
Rod 10:55
One of the websites said gross Christian relic. So I'm just quoting, just quoting...
Will 10:59
there's nothing gross about 2000 year old breast milk
Rod 11:02
or nipples. Yes, embodied or otherwise, nothing gross, jerky, fried. So there are many relics that would really be worthy of our noble and dignified wholesome show, guys, but I had to settle on one. So I decided to focus on what is without question, the most important holy relic artefact that's ever existed. So today on excellent Friday, we're going to talk about the story of Jesus Christ's foreskin.
Will 11:31
Welcome to the wholesome show. The podcast that trims away the extra bits around the hole of science. You're welcome. You should be fired. You should be fired up. You're a bad man. I'm Will Grant.
Rod 11:48
And I'm Rod Lambert. You've made me so happy already. This is good Easter.
Will 11:56
It should be fine.
Rod 11:58
Alright, are you ready to sink your teeth into Jesus foreskin?
Will 12:01
Well, no, I wasn't before. And I won't be. I had never. I had never thought this is where we'd be going.
Rod 12:10
Honestly, me neither. I found it completely by accident when I well. What choice do I have? Um, it's also known as the Holy Prepuce. Prepuce is the technical term for foreskin but also the skin surrounding the clitoris. Okay, or as I would call it, the divine turtleneck, or in Zulu, ijwabu. So, early references, so if you want a really excellent primer on on all things, Jesus for skinniest, what you need to go to is this article by Robert Palazzo 2005. The veneration of the sacred foreskin in (of baby Jesus), a documented analysis. Okay, you know, the one. And it's been drawn by many popular articles because it focuses on describing the ways in which the foreskin was kept and changes in its ownership across generations. Yeah, okay. Jesus' circumcision was mentioned in the Bible, but it doesn't talk about okay, what happened to the off cuts
Will 13:05
little Jewish baby, they get the snip. So it's in, then what normally happens?
Rod 13:12
I don't know. I don't know. I haven't been to one. Yeah, okay. Okay. And you know, what, if I do get invited, I may be busy that day
Will 13:20
kept in your frankincense and myrrh jars or something like that.
Rod 13:25
Luke 221. And at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised, He was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb. So apparently traditional eight days, then you get circumcised.
Will 13:37
You said I knew he was going to be Jesus, but they're not allowed to call him Jesus for those eight days.
Rod 13:40
Okay, fair enough, says Hey, God, kid. But they doesn't talk about what happened afterwards. It just says he was circumcised and so verify the first allegedly verified account of the circumcision to also have a reference to the survival of the holy prepuce. Yeah. comes from the apocryphal Syriac Infancy Gospel. Yeah, you know, the one.
Will 14:02
The Infancy Gospel had and how to parent your kids Syriac style. Yep, exactly
Rod 14:05
The Syriacian child, apparaently that turns up around beginning of the sixth or just before the sixth century. And this is, and when the time of his circumcision was come, namely, the eighth day on which the Lord commanded the child to be circumcised, they circumcised him in a cave. And the old Hebrew woman took the foreskin and preserved it in an alabaster box of old oil of spikenard.
Will 14:28
spine out a cooking oil. Kinda got to do it in a cave that houses this,
Rod 14:32
like it's got Nard in it, because it's just such a hilarious word for balls in America, so and they're talking about the forest.
Will 14:37
I know I know. It's a magic spell. I know what you're doing there is a magic spell. So caves are better oil of spikenard is better,
Rod 14:44
spikenard spikenard is also called nard and musk root. It's an essential oil
Will 14:49
that was that was the thing that people have Googled to find the show that they like now uses for spikenard or replacement for spikenard in my recipe
Rod 14:57
traditional medicines from India to Europe. There you go. That's what Well, they're also sort of suggests you took away the quote, navel string, okay, umbilical cord, umbilical for those different falls who pronounce all the words wrong. The relic of this church. This relic though is super important be caught for a number of reasons not just because it came off Jesus but religious relics is supposed to be, you know ways of interacting with divine power. Yeah, it's the it's the godly body no but although you know or someone divine but this is actually a piece of Jesus so you could almost say a piece of the Lord itself. And it's particularly important to because they say that Jesus ascended to heaven bodily like
Will 15:35
yeah, he actually went up not just went up the bits Yeah, there was nothing more to bury nothing more to bury so gone out of the cave. And then yeah, a little while longer up to having
Rod 15:45
nothing left behind. But it turns out maybe then. It's not true. Because during his life he left the foreskin and did poos.
Will 15:52
he cut his hair as well and fingernails and probably skin cells,
Rod 15:55
They probably went straight to heaven.
Will 15:57
I actually, I was actually wondering this the other day, and I thought, no, no, I was thinking, you know, an idiot podcast could actually do this research and figure it out. But, you know, we all we all shed skin cells, we all shed poo cells and hair cells and things like that our bodies decay over time. And so there were molecules that came off Jesus, that then went into the soil and then and then grew into plants and then were eaten by other people that
Rod 16:22
You going to tell me that's where weed came from. That pot is definitley a plant that grew from Jesus bits.
Will 16:29
You're right, look, if you right. That's one thing you could say.
Rod 16:34
They call it the god plant.
Will 16:35
But I want to know how many how many molecules have actually physically existing Jesus are inside each each average person
Rod 16:42
Two
Will 16:43
Thank you. That's not the science working that out. That's just speculation.
Rod 16:46
Two ish. No, it's hypothesis. It's somewhere between I hypothesise somewhere between zero and some. It is. It was the only part removed from his lifetime removed from him distinctly. That's what these people say.
Will 16:58
So he didn't get a haircut. Apparently not. He was a hippie. He looked like the kind of guy that had a bit of a trim.
Rod 17:02
What did he look like? I mean, that pale alabaster skin?
Will 17:06
No, I mean, Jesus that looks more like the end of neanderthal cave fighter. Yeah, well, he looks tough. And he looks like a good carpenter from the Middle East
Rod 17:15
He does. So the idea that you'd have a bit of his body, even if it's just the tip is extremely good. makes people happy. Also,
Will 17:27
if you if you're gonna rank bits of body that have Jesus's body that there's more magic in
Rod 17:32
What can be more magical than the foreskin.
Will 17:35
I think there could be like, if you had Jesus's eyeballs, that would be higher. That's demented man. Nipples I'd possibly put somewhere in there. But but there's things like toenails that are less definitely lesser
Rod 17:44
balls? up there with foreskin. So a little lower, depending on the day.
Will 17:51
Yeah. Yeah, the good versions of the relics. But there could be shitty relics.
Rod 17:58
What shit? Well, yeah. I didn't find anything that said, This is St Augustine's Poopoo. Someone's got it somewhere, you know that this is the faecal remnant of someone, someone holy. Also, the worship of the foreskin made a lot of sense to people, particularly in early Christianity, because they're trying to get their heads around this idea of God in human form, generally.
Will 18:17
Yeah.
Rod 18:18
So this kind of helped that.
Will 18:21
By having a bit of it.
Rod 18:22
Yeah. And the fact that this this proves he, you know, there was a human thing and also according to some people, the circumcision showed that he bled to like normal humans. Okay. Yeah. Which is nice. It's good thing to do to a baby, especially with those technologies. And Mary Rubin, who's a Professor of Medical and early modern history, she says, Look, her focus on Christ genitals would have made him seem all the more human. You don't hear a lot about, you know, the Christ..
Will 18:46
So hang on. So she's arguing here that looking at looking at Babies genitals is a way to humanise them you can just
Rod 18:55
These are different times different times different times. She also says I'm it builds this whole notion that the pathos of the child you know, the fact that the the embodiment of God could be vulnerable and small infant you know, so this is sort of connection
Will 19:08
and doing human rights and rituals, I guess, is living the human things go down,
Rod 19:13
which is supposed to be part of the reason, the big fella sent the semi big fella down. Also, if you add to this equation, mediaeval times, you know, occultism and stuff rampid nothing supernatural, and heard of it, as I know, it's this is this is you've heard at this breaking news. And so anything is basically associated with Jesus, in this case very closely would have been like the relic of relics. Yeah. Also really good for marketing. Because churches, way back then and continue to go and say, Look, we have a particularly holy relic,
Will 19:41
if you're choosing our churches, if your church a or church b . One's got the holy foreskin and one's got the holy stool and the other one has the third one has nothing. Which one are you going to?
Rod 19:52
I'm going to both the stool and the foreskin, okay, in that order that I'm gonna go stool first and work my way up to the foreskin. As it says in the bible.
Will 20:00
Assemble assemble the ingredients of Jesus slowly. Toenails first.
Rod 20:03
Yeah. And speaking of marketing, let's get into a little bit of religious art just while we're on the way. So there's not really any paintings of the foreskin itself, but the circumcision features.
Will 20:14
Why why why don't we take that for a topic?
Rod 20:17
I don't know. I don't know. It's not my fault. So you've got mediaeval and early modern period. So you've got like the I got a couple of pictures here for you just looking a night so you got the here's a painting of a very curvy looking psychopath. No he looks like he's being careful. He looks like a freak. Finally, a little glasses, a weird strap on his head. And
Will 20:40
he looks like a doctor a guy in old times, being careful with that giant knife next to poor little Jesus's bits,
will 20:46
dingdong. Yep, it's such an interesting piece of holy art is another this one, you know, darker?
Rod 20:55
Yeah, it's darker.
will 20:56
On I basically say a whole bunch of people standing around a baby,
Will 21:00
but then that's what a circumcision is. Anyway.
Rod 21:04
Again, I'll believe you'll haven't really attended many yet. This is not in a cave. This one I like better though, because it's neither the circumcision. In theory, the foreskin is in it. It's the called the mystic marriage of St. Catherine of Siena. Painted somewhere around 1460. She had a vision which she married Jesus and the foreskin served as a wedding ring. Wait, oh, wow. That's unique.
Will 21:28
And she became a saint. I think that's I think that's usurping things to having your dream. I'm married I married Jesus. Like and he put his foreskin on my finger to symbolise. Coming to that in a second. But it is a big jump. Like, it's like what my dream was I would help the poor or I would do lots of Yeah, you know, my marriage, chastity and live a tough life. But no, no, I went straight to I just married to do married into the family. So I'm basically God's daughter in law. So I inherit everything afterwards.
Rod 21:57
She's like Jared Kushner? Kind of,
Will 22:00
I mean, it makes it much more authentic. Because absolutely doesn't that is what Jesus would use as his wedding ring.
Rod 22:06
I wonder though, like that mean, he kept it in his pocket
Will 22:09
here, taking my foreskin.
Rod 22:11
I just wanted to tell him
Will 22:14
because he was
Rod 22:16
Italian. seen all the time. He actually basically
Will 22:20
hipsters if you are planning your wedding. Oh, yeah. You know how now to make an authentic ceremony? You know, it's been done. It has no it hasn't I guarantee I guarantee you there are limits to things that have been done and now there are still limits.
Rod 22:35
You have limits
Will 22:36
there are many people have done it metaphorically. Maybe. They haven't. Yes. No human no human at that point has gone okay. This is this is super serious. We're going through the wedding. You know, it takes a fair bit to go through the wedding. We're planning all this and then comes to their beloved and said, Look love, honey, it's not that I'm too broke to afford and we got the rest is more romantic. You get my foreskin? This is more I've got I've got a nice platinum thing. I don't think I don't think that's happened.
Rod 23:05
But baby it's romance.
Will 23:07
I don't think it's even been thought before. It has like a that's been thought for example then. So for centuries. She dreamed it about herself though. She was like that makes it okay, I want the foreskin around me.
Rod 23:17
Yeah, that seems fine. I have no notes.
Will 23:20
So if you woke up from a dream like that, you wake up in the morning screaming screaming Whoa, well that was that was that was that was quite a thing. I got Yeah, I don't know if your screen you got married to Jesus. It's not the worst and and the foreskin wedding right? Would you tell everyone?
Rod 23:35
Yep. You know I would I'd be in at the office the next morning going you would not fucking believe what I dreamt I was walking into our director's office with the paper that said the basically the story of Jesus' foreskin I said, you know, there are things I never thought I'd read at work on my computer. And Georgia is kind of dropped and she didn't know what to say. But she
Will 23:54
says this is the role of AI art now is to generate for me some wedding pictures of you marrying Jesus and Jesus putting his foreskin on your finger.
Rod 24:02
It's gonna get a lot like docking photos, though. Because no one said it had to be removed. Stop it. So special powers a couple of things. What are its attributed special powers, foreskin powers, the foreskin powers, and also kind of related how do you actually know it's his? Because it's been around a while. Okay. So I've already said Catholic relics, whether they're a piece of you know, the cross of the toe of a saint, whatever they they've considered key to communion with the divine when we know this. Also, there was part of this they believed they can withstand natural decay, so they're considered incorruptible.
Will 24:38
I've seen some of these relics. Yeah, they don't look in corrupt. No, they look shrivelled and gross. Yeah, they barely looked like things anymore. Yeah, it looked like a stick or a twig.
Rod 24:46
Tan but you find it a pay a playground. Yeah. But people of course thought well, this is a bit of Jesus body so it's surely it's going to be basically super incorruptible. Like it just couldn't identify saints. Yeah, not okay. Um, how do we know this? Their argument is well, there We've been stories about it for ages, so of course it doesn't decay. And jerky doesn't. Yeah, to be fair. Of course, they didn't go with the obvious conclusion that the stories might just be stories. It's weird that they always skip that part. No other conclusion is...
Will 25:13
Incredulous. They just accept that bit of the story entirely
Rod 25:17
credulous faith, if you look it up on the screen and all the powers, so the fact that heaps of places claimed at times to have at the same time, there are instances where the 10s of churches across Europe and for some reason, particularly in France, saying it, can we all have it, it can be in multiple places at the same time, or no magical powers of duplication. Okay, you can photocopy itself. Divine lis. Of course, there are miracles attributed to the holy foreskin like freak storms and my favourite in this instance perfumed mists. When I think foreskin I think perfumed mist
Will 25:54
sure you can get a little spritz in your face of village a little bit of foreskin mist.
Rod 25:59
The whole village smells faintly of lavender moleskin mist? Yep, there's some monks from shabu. I believe it's pronounced foreskin relic in their possession apparently during ceremonies. drops of blood coming up, like the the blood of reawakens. Yeah.
Will 26:15
Not on creepy.
Rod 26:15
It's no no, it's fine. It's just It's beautiful. It's beautiful. 17th century theologian, guy called Leo a lot to use. History was it descended, ascended into heaven and became the rings of satin. Obviously, it sure does. It stretches,
Will 26:31
it was trying to catch up to the rest of Jesus's body and got alarmed
will 26:34
by the gravity of Saturn. Obvious when you think about
Will 26:39
I was sitting there thinking I need an explanation for Saturn's rings.
Rod 26:44
foreskin will tell us Oh no, sorry. Just a theologian. He wasn't a saint you shouldn't be with it wasn't like
Will 26:49
Was he an astronomer or an astrophysicist?
Rod 26:52
But must have been because he's got some pretty solid theories about planets.
Will 26:55
Let's go with no.
Rod 26:57
Can you set and had rings? Sorry, Satan has a foreskin. And my favourite is a more than one account suggest that if you rub it on the eyelids of the blind, yep, they can see Yep, so they granted foresight. I'm done. That wasn't in the text that is this my hilarious gag. So relate it is it? Is it Jesus'? Many churches claimed to be the owner at some point, the Middle Ages, not all at the same time. And some actually wanted to try and get verified. There are some church leaders sorry, from the monks of San Giovanni in Laterano. Rome, early 12th century they said, Hey, Pope Innocent the third, dude, please verify the authenticity of the foreskin.
Will 27:37
So their method of verification is
Rod 27:38
Ask the Pope.
Will 27:39
Okay. Okay. God's representative. Not going through science.
Rod 27:44
No no actual verification check with the Pope. Yeah. And there was bits. I didn't leave it in because I was reading along the way. But there were cases where people kind of going Aang was
Will 27:55
that again, that's not going to tell, you know, like, I try anything, I have a bit of a chew on Jesus's foreskin, it will tell you, it's chewy. Like, I don't know if there's a lot more you can get from that. I agree with you, unless you've been chewing on some other bits of Jesus. And you can you sort of know like, this is like an eyelid. This is Jesus's nipple. I know what it tastes like.
Rod 28:16
You had to go and make it weird. Um, the pope refused to. He said, No, I'm not. I'm not going to do that. But it's okay. Because the 14th century Saint Bridget of Sweden had a vision from the Virgin Mary. And she was told the holy prepuce that was held in the Vatican at the time was authentic. So that's pretty solid. Okay, she had a vision.
Will 28:36
It's an awful lot of care, like having a vision like, just this is this is your mystical vision. It could be it could be go and save. Save the Jews. Take all the animals on a boat
Rod 28:46
Stop abusing people for their religious beliefs.
Will 28:49
It could have been that it could have been any of those things, or just letting you in. The bit of foreskin in The Vatican, that's a real that's real. I would be sad if that was my vision. If that was my one true mystical moment, one touch of God steps into my life just to clarify something that's like,
Rod 29:05
the calamari is real. Thanks.
Will 29:09
Couldn't I have something cool?
Rod 29:11
Just but it lends a bit of credibility to the idea of is really a vision because you're like, who would make up something so banal? Sure, sure. I had a vision. What was it like the foreskin is real? Cool. Thanks. I'll take that to no one until nobody. Also that the fact that the shrew will show whatever the foreskin that would bleed occasionally during ceremonies that was taken as evidence that it must be real. Must be Jesus's because it bleeds nice little circularity wandering around that. So what we know now is it's magical. It's possibly every damn one of them was real, because magical, etc. Which is great. I think it's great. But where the hell is the secret pools you Maltese. You got to keep it interesting. People can learn from this podcast. Oh, Jesus, not surprisingly, it's a bit of a tale and it's selfies but I'll just give you one teaser before we get to the rest. The story has been running at least in well into the 20th century. Seriously. Yeah. It was proposed to the foreskin as a relic of being passed around associated with the Byzantine Empress Irene. Very Byzantine name. That's a great name. I'm Empress Irene.
Will 30:18
It's just the fact that there are a few people named Irene in Australia in the 70s, obviously named after Boston teen and in person,
Rod 30:24
actually, ah, she apparently gave it to King Charlemagne. But some accounts says Charmaine said Angel gave it to me. Why respect? It's probably going to kill her. I don't know. I assume
Will 30:38
it's a pretty big present. Like if you've got if you're, you know, your ambassador or something like that. You want to make nice with another king only piece of Christ on earth. foreskin no less. You it's a very big presence. You have you want something? Yeah.
Rod 30:51
You think he may be just a nice candle holder or something? You know, a book.
Will 30:55
Here's it, here's a nice sword. That's what they gave me.
Rod 30:58
I'd rather a sword than a foreskin. To be honest. Like, if you said to me for Christmas, you can choose I'd say I'll take the sword. I can't choose. I'm sorry. Needs to be nice. In AD 800. Some say 799. Who cares? Charlemagne gave it to Pope Leo the third. Leo. Apparently, it says in this book of Descriptio laternansis Ecclesia , which I think when I looked it up, is basically a registry of shit like the Ark of the Covenant stuff where they are. They really, I think that's what it seemed like the Ark of the Covenant turned up a lot when I was searching in
Will 31:28
In this book, a list of a catalogue of all the cool stuff related to it.
Rod 31:32
Yeah, so that's what it seems like I could be very wrong. Tweet at us or something. If you want to correct me. I'm sure the Vatican listens. That'd probably let it someone in the Vatican is listening. Right. So this is written before just before 1100. And it described that Leah the third had a chest and a big golden cross placed in the Sanctus Santorum at the Lateran Palace, which is in Europe. And the the foreskin and apparently the umbilical cord replace them in the special spawn the special sancta sanctorum. But since from then forward, I have no idea what happened to the sacred umbilical cord so that one the navel string it's still there probably someone's using it to put their lanyard on like a Vatican guards swiping.
Will 32:13
They're not. That would be you know, that's
Rod 32:15
the chief of the of the Swiss Guard
Will 32:16
They don't do that.
Rod 32:17
Look at Jesus umbilical cord as a lanyard. That makes a lot of sense of what I saw. The holy foreskin was in Rome for centuries, apparently like receiving these sancta sanctorum. Every now and then it got loaned out like you know, Blue Poles gets loaned to other galleries.
Will 32:30
So it adds to its worth by showing it around a bit. Absolutely.
Rod 32:34
I imagine the box is far more spectacular than the thing itself.
Will 32:38
They may have said that about all sacred objects or fantastic paintings, the box that they're in the gallery that they're in might add to the lustre a little bit.
Rod 32:47
This is the Mona Lisa is great. But look at the frame.
Will 32:50
Well, the frame of the Louvre and all of the wrappings around it that make us think Hang on, we're really something's restoring this culture. You know, there's a navy, we look at all of that, not just the painting itself.
Rod 33:01
So you're a big picture guy. .
Will 33:03
I'm a big picture guy And so the Vatican clearly knows this. They're like no, to get to get to the foreskin you have to go through all of these layers of marble and gold like marble and gold marble and gold, marble and got no like dynamite. Like domes. And it's true. They're making it as fancy as possible. That's just true, more spectacular than the last as you want you to be shocked at how splendours it is. And then the shittiest object can appear super magical,
Rod 33:27
or could work in reverse, like, wow, wow, wow.
Will 33:31
No one's disappointed. Now, when you finally there, you're like,
will 33:34
I know it's gonna be terrible. But at least I'll feel like I've made the journey. And then there's that mist as the friends we made along the way. And it's true, like all visits to foreskins. So it was sent places that said one one example, Katherine was sent to Catherine of Valois in England in 1421. To bring her good fortune in her married marriage to me the fifth. So I don't think it worked.
Will 33:58
I don't know that marriage.
Rod 34:00
He's the same as Henry the eighth. I mean, he had to get Yeah, of course, same person.
Will 34:04
One of them famous for divorce. I'm not sure the other one. Divorce is a nice way of putting it. There were divorces and I
Rod 34:13
Then 1527 disaster. Disaster is last sack of Rome, sacked from Rome, the Rome was sacked by a bunch of Germans, etc. And a German soldier got into the Sanctus, Santorum and flogged the foreskin, took the foreskin, you know the Germans a lot a bit of force.
Will 34:35
I hope he replaced it with like a fake version of it like so. What are they doing? I know that I need a bit of you just to pretend so they won't notice it's gone for a few years.
Rod 34:46
Well, it's come here and this off for me, believe me, it's worth it. This invasion didn't go well. It left half the people dead lots of relics was stolen or destroyed, etc. And so for 30 years, where the fuck is Jesus gone?
Will 34:58
Who were 3030 is maybe nowhere or, or
Rod 35:03
1557 30 years later, it was found in the cell of the German soldier who nicked it. Oh, like as he was imprisoned prison. Yeah, he was. He kept it on himself somehow. I suppose when they maybe had it stuck in his undies, and they didn't bother to search,
Will 35:18
He was carrying it like a secret watch or ring. The Honourable
Rod 35:22
they'd go no no it's a skin condition. It's not jewellery. It's a skin condition.
Will 35:28
I dread to think where he was hiding his his foreskin while he was in jail all that time.
Rod 35:33
You put it in his mouth because it wouldn't decay because he was super incorruptibility. Sure. So maybe in his mouth, sure. But they found a long time after he was imprisoned in a town called Calcutta, not Calcutta. But Calcutta. It's about 30 miles north of Rome. And somehow he secreted it and later on, it was found in his cell. And it's interesting that that year, a bunch of weird miracles followed freak storms per, etc. Only once they discovered it.
Will 36:00
Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure. But I mean, you know that Jesus's foreskin was big on making storms. windstorm.
Rod 36:07
Yeah but only once people knew it was there. That's how miracles work. You have to know first and then he goes, Oh, well, I bet a Miracle Morning stall. Here we go is a mist. And the Pope of the time said Alright, look, fate has made this very important relic. visible again. It's found its home in Calcutta. So it shall remain there. So build a church. Chiesa del SS. Nome di Gesù, or the church of the holy name, which is a reference to Jesus, so
Will 36:34
could've been more explicit. Yeah, you could have just gotten the church with the foreskin. That's true. Jesus put that Latin
Rod 36:40
Dick extras church. And so from that day forth January the first local priests would lead a procession around the village holding the relic Hi, I see me wear like a bangle not too hot waggling around it too high.
will 36:51
Too high and you can't see it. Like we are supposed to go in your fingertips. I thought was on a pole
Rod 36:57
Foreskin pole more like what are they got a mitre? In the crook of the mitre so much round going look, Jesus, foreskin and everyone go damn. But as time moved on, science became more popular. Yeah. Church stuff, not so much. So the church started to get a little self conscious,
Will 37:13
or they got embarrassed about it a little bit. Science ruins everything.
Rod 37:17
That's why we talk about it. So you thought I wasn't gonna get to science I did. Science made the church embarrassed. Well, science attitudes, there was an edict from the Vatican, which said basically, we're looking within so they thought basically, we're looking backwards. So they issued a decree in 1900, saying, if you talk about a right about the holy foreskin, you'll get excommunicated. Seriously, we'll put you out of the church. That's a bit mean, remove you from the Divine, you're getting kicked out of the church for it, ya know, like, don't don't write about the holy foreskin, which to me, I guess.
Will 37:50
Let's let's hash out about it. And we excommunicated now.
Rod 37:53
Yes, it's a bit rough. Yeah, well, it's sad because this is awkward. Scientists have kind of gone you guys seem like primitives. If you write about it, then you're out.
Will 38:04
That that won't make us look primitive. No, for kicking people out if they talk about it. It's such a cool secret.
Rod 38:09
Especially you're no longer in touch with God because I've waggled my hand and I have the tallest hat. For some reason, they allowed the village of Calcutta to continue with precession, even though they struck Vatican two reforms struck the day of the holy circumcision from the church calendar. I didn't even know there was a day of the holy circumcision. Originally, that would have been a weird one. I went to a school that was religious in theory, Anglican, so semi religious, but they put out the school calendar for each semester. And half it was for the names of these Saint days, holy holidays, and we're gonna go I don't even know what those words mean
Will 38:43
To get them all off. I just know not actually holy. Hold on.
Rod 38:47
Just be aware that this exists. But I never saw the day of the holy circumcision. And believe me, we would have seen it.
Will 38:52
I'm guessing that if that had turned up in your school, there's a lot that you would all die, you would all die of laughter because teenage boys couldn't handle a foreskin day.
Rod 39:02
Do you know what's worse? Because I put something in Latin. I'd have to translate it fucked with them. I did Latin there could have actually translated.
Will 39:10
Maybe that's the sort of lure. Let's put secret days in there. If you if the kids actually translated, they get a little sticker.
Rod 39:17
That's how they know if you actually understand that. Like I have a read of this. And the first person who asked us like you get an HD. Yeah. Because you actually know. So they basically let it happen. But it was on the Qt there wasn't a huge event. Um, Trump surprised about because if they actually went this, maybe is Jesus foreskin. How would you sweep it under the rug, but they kind of kept the quiet, let them let them carry on. So 54 years after the threat of excommunication a monk said I want to include Qatar in a pilgrimage. Well, I put it on the pilgrimage. Hollywood stars map. We did a pilgrim pilgrim here as well. Lonely Planet Guide. Come and see the holy foreskin and
Will 39:55
putting it there's not a big problem isn't. Would that be a problem at the church?
Rod 39:59
Yeah, right. uses the profile again and they didn't want that so they had a chat about it and they up to the punishment not just to excommunication but apparently worse excommunication something with a quote around it saying
Will 40:11
if you haven't go into a shitty church like that they kick you out of the coma satanist and yeah, yeah, we put you in the bad church
Rod 40:18
you're now like Lucifer, so they made it worse and that freaked more people out so the whole force can pray got quieter and quieter God kept going with a kindness
Will 40:27
I get I get we all fight for our beliefs but it's a very weird here that hill to die on. It's it's, I still
Rod 40:35
got some shrieking these men in these ornate gowns shrieking that it is or it isn't the foreskin of Jesus. But then if we agree it is what do we do about it? Because some dude with a PhD is laughing at us as he mixes chemicals in his lab or these clowns with podcasts. So required a little a little ceremony sort of kept on going but it wasn't publicised. But also the town itself started to crumble and getting partially abandoned. People went into it. Then in the 60s, a bunch of hippies went, this is a cool town. We're gonna go and hang out there. If he's like Jesus, they were drawn by the foreskin, they could smell the mist. It was probably Sandalwood by then. And so they started writing about the parade of the old the hula hoop or whatever. And they put it in local newspapers around Rome. So suddenly, it starts to rise on people's horizon. So the church it seems took notice again, the local priests thought I better do something about this. So Father Dario Magnoni. He took action. He gets the foreskin he puts it in a shoebox. As he wrote and he hides it. Sources very either under his bed or in the back of his carpet. Oh, it's like that's where you hide your Faberge egg because no one's gonna look in a shoebox in the back of the cupboard for your fabric.
Will 41:52
It is very much you clearly someone who has not spent a lot of his time thinking about how to hide stuff. This is like the the six year old version of okay, Where can I hide stuff under the bed or back of the cupboard that's gone for forever.
Rod 42:08
Who's gonna look on the my bed for the foreskin of the Christ. Now, buddy and people basically thought Well, the reason he did that was because it was back on the churches, right? I was like, I don't where it is. It was in the church. I'm gonna look for last.
Will 42:23
This is like some weird Dan Brown. Like probably a good one. And under the bed.
Rod 42:29
Tom Hanks stars in the hunt for Jesus.
Will 42:32
So it is the same instinct you know that inside the Vatican they go it's marble, gold marble gold all the way into the holiest of holies but for the you know for your six year olds, it's the same sort of thing. I got the bed that's where that's where all the secrets go in the awesome it's basically monsters and weird toys down there. So soldier, a piece of a rubber band.
Rod 42:51
And literally Yeah, force piece of the original Christ. Yeah. So that seems fine. Things started to quieten down again, but the parade kept going. So ever you get it out.
Will 43:00
Or they got it out.
Rod 43:01
Yeah. Get it out each year.
Will 43:03
Oh so he still did it. Yeah, he's hiding it.
Rod 43:05
Yeah. You know how it works. It wasn't a good spy. Then we get to 1983 just before just before the Feast of the holy circumcision father manual, and he says, I'm just gonna make sure everything's ready. So it goes into his room. pulls out the shoebox. Ah, it's gone. Oh no, the foreskin she's gone.
Will 43:29
Have a lock on it.
Rod 43:31
Or that would see that would make people realise it was valuable. Okay, okay. So it comes down announces to his parish this year, the holy relic will not be exposed to the devotion of the faithful it has vanished. I can't find it is vanished. sacrilegious thieves have taken it from my home.
Will 43:48
Oh no. Not sacrilege like thieves that love religion. Clearly. These are not people that don't care about religion or care too much. Exactly. They want to put it under their bed
Rod 43:55
sacrilegious thieves. So what happened to it? Where did the Holy turtleneck go man Yanni refused to speak about it because of the threat of excommunication. So we really talk about it other than to say it's gone. His predecessor father mustard or cola, didn't want to talk about it at length. But when he was asked, he said he wasn't surprised. He said, Yeah, of course. It's been stolen. It wouldn't have been taken away if I was still there. But doesn't surprise me. Then a slight June 2006 guy called David Fowler. He goes, I'm gonna I'm gonna investigate this. I'm gonna see what happens. So he goes over and he said one of the quotes I love the people in the village are really upset. Yep. I'm shocked. And he goes on to say mustard or coal is ambiguous words so the predecessors not directly incriminating anyone, but they've hinted at underhand dealings of the church. But the Vatican requests for interviews of the Vatican from slices
Will 44:48
Are you saying the Vatican has come to steal it back.
Rod 44:51
You're talking Dan Brown. But I love you know, I'm a journalist from Slate trying to find the Holy Spirit of Jesus will you get back to me the Vatican is like not Who the fuck are you and why are we talking about that? So he writes an article the article is called did the Vatican steal Jesus foreskin so people would shut up about the Savior's penis? Why wouldn't they reply to that guy?
Will 45:13
It's a great it's a great way to get people stop caring about it, is to do an undercover operation to steal it. That account will make people uninterested entirely.
Rod 45:22
Whatever. So I'm creating a bit from file. Here he goes. At one point I found myself sitting in a wine cellar halfway up the hill between the old and new villages of Calcutta, the sellers owner and a lifelong villager. He told me about his close relationship with a former local bishop. He said the bishop was basically dying in bed. And he told couple, only the local wine cellar guy that after he was gone, the bishop was gone. The Relic would be too. Let's wait and send the bishop died in 1975. So it was eight years before the relic disappeared. And according to the wine cellar guy that I think that sounds like a confession. You're like, of course a scam. Eight years later, something happened. So there's of course speculation that the sacrilegious thieves that Manone the original shoebox priest said was basically Vatican emissaries came in, Nick, as you suspected Dan Brown. The Vatican ninjas come in. Done.
Will 46:18
Yeah, yeah.
Rod 46:19
I mean, is it hard again, you put it on your finger and
Will 46:19
so like a swiss guard costume that is not all colourful like that when they're undercover. That's sacrilegious.
Rod 46:28
is to go to where the pom poms and the skirt pockets a funny outfit. Beautiful. I wouldn't say it wasn't beautiful, but it's fine. Finally, it's fine.
Will 46:35
It's different. It's different.
Rod 46:37
So they're also people suspect that it was Manyana himself who went now I'm going to take it back to the Vatican. Okay, and then go I lost it.
Will 46:44
Here's my fancy shoebox
Rod 46:46
I threw out the wrong shoe box recycling the dump. All this theory is stolen and sold on the black market. And of course, theories that either Satanists or Neo Nazis took it. ,
Will 46:55
Of course they would be the ones who want it. Yeah, no, no.
Rod 46:59
Well, I would, I would, I've seen right as the Lost Ark. And I like religious icons, because
Will 47:05
I know I was I was I was I was the satanists. Like, if you're worshipping Satan, I don't know why you would have a piece of the other guy. Like burn it or eat it. Okay, but
Rod 47:15
to hold power over him. If someone came up to you and goes, this is a piece of your
Will 47:19
Of your nemesis, I know have power over you. But you don't know.
Rod 47:24
Well, I don't have the thing either. It got stolen from under my bed. Mine still in my shoebox. So basically, no confirmation or denial. So where is it now? Fuck knows. That was the last we heard but also apparently very few authors or researchers look into it.
Will 47:39
It's weird , it's weird how few authors or researchers look into conspiracy, the location of Jesus's foreskin, I wonder why I don't know a few people look into it.
Rod 47:49
There's a PhD done in Canada on it, though. And one of the sources, which will of course be in our show notes refers to this particular PhD done fairly recently in Canada about it, but the dude the one of the quotes was, I don't really care if it's real or not. It's more about you know, the vibe and the sociocultural.
Will 48:04
Sure. I'm investigating the investigation.
Rod 48:07
I want to know. So as I went down this rabbit hole, I gotta say, I could keep going. Like, if I was to do the PhD all over, I would do something far weirder and wacky than I did. I'd be like, Okay, I'm gonna go and hang out the Vatican, and...
Will 48:18
you'd be on the hunt for Jesus's foreskin or something like, can you imagine? So here's, here's how awesome there is a version. A science version? I don't know. I don't have the full details here, sadly. And one day, one day I will do this. Einstein's brain apparently has passed around. And apparently, there's some versions where those thin slices taken and they were doled out to different universities. And there's some some traditions I think somewhere in America, or Kansas or Kentucky or something like that, where new med students early on will take out Einstein's brain or the sliver that they have and lick it.
Rod 48:53
I would
Will 48:54
probably taste very vinegary.
Rod 48:55
Formaldehyde stinks. Yeah. Oh, anyway. And also formaldehyde brains. The one I cut up as an undergrad psychologist, which I think was a terrible thing to do with the human brain but they gave it to us anyway. Second year neurobiology chop up a brain Yeah, it'd been sitting in formaldehyde for so long. It basically look almost completely uniform yellow all the way through. Yeah, so you barely see the structures a violated carbon to human brain.
Will 49:18
That's nice for you.
Rod 49:19
It was weird.
Will 49:20
If you if you rub a brain on your face. Yes, that's how the salt comes through top of your head on the top
Rod 49:26
near the pineal gland. But what I want to know like so you know recently, there's a story I want to know what I want to know.
Will 49:35
I know this. There's one thing I
Rod 49:37
the thing that disappoints me most is the science angle like off imagine doing genetic testing. You actually got it and it made it so your genetic test to incite this is got nine extra strands of DNA. You're like alright, this is unusual. Yep. Or there are people going I am the great great grandchild of Jesus and God's DNA is different. And obviously you know, it's his foreskin so that everyone else is like the king Imagine if they went okay, we're pretty confident this is at least the thing people thought it was. Yeah, we're gonna DNA it.
Will 50:05
Well, look, there will be there's clearly cult leaders around now and some of them will become, beloved, longer term. Give more skin and we'll be able to test and check back in time. Sadly, we can't we don't have enough other evidence to associate with Jesus
Rod 50:22
and we have faithful.
Will 50:24
Yeah, I mean one of the Pope's that have blood on the one true cross or something like that,
Rod 50:27
like in their claims or bits of that lying around in the Vatican elsewhere. Maybe
Will 50:32
anyway, we've all got a little bit of Jesus in us now.
