What is it with the French and kissing?
They certainly know a thing or two about romance. Imagine being serenaded with an accordion and indulging in a chocolate croissant overlooking the Eiffel Tower. Who wouldn’t want to lean into an old-fashioned smooch?
But not all kissing is romantic in nature. Sometimes it’s necessary to save a life. In fact, one girl has inadvertently saved countless lives by being the world’s most kissed face. It’s our pleasure to introduce to you the beautiful Resusci-Anne.
Let’s go back almost 150 years ago when the lifeless body of an unidentified teenage girl was pulled from the Seine River. A tragedy indeed. At the morgue, a medical assistant was struck by the girl's serene expression and the hint of a smile that was playing on her lips.
He was so struck in fact, that he decided to immortalise her tragic beauty by commissioning a death mask of her face. It was all the rage back then. Napoleon, Victor Hugo, and Beethoven, all added a mask of plaster of Paris to their posthumous beauty regime.
The young woman's enigmatic face became a muse for artists, novelists and poets alike. She inspired paintings and tragically romantic stories and earned the moniker “drowned Mona Lisa” or “the unknown woman of the Seine”. Soon she became a sensation in turn-of-the-20th-century Europe but her influence extended well beyond her time.
Fast forward to 1956 America. Two anesthesiologists, Peter Safar and James Elam, had heard of a promising new technique for keeping patients alive called cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR). The problem was, they were struggling to find volunteers to practise on owing to the fact that cracked ribs and organ damage are likely sequelae of the technique. In fact, some say that you’re doing it wrong if you DON’T break ribs.
Coma patients, spouses, and even each other, no torso was off limits to the CPR inventors for practising this new life-saving technique. Though as you could imagine, this cohort of willing torsos was severely limited.
Hearing about this new reviving technique, Norwegian toymaker, Asmund Laerdal, saw an opportunity to help. He’d previously lent his soft-plastic manipulating skills to the military by creating plastic models of wounds used for training military medics. They even squirted out fake blood. Awesome.
But one of his best-selling toys was a baby doll named Anne. So, he offered to make a life-size adult Anne doll for the sole purpose of CPR training. Back then, nearly all doctors were male so Laerdal and Lind decided they would feel more comfortable "kissing" a female doll.
So now they had a body on which trainees could practice their life-saving (and bone-breaking) CPR.
And her face? Well, while visiting relatives, Laerdal spotted the serenely smiling death mask of the aforementioned "unknown woman of the Seine" on their wall. And so, he created a CPR mannequin with the face of a dead 19th-century French girl, still known today as Resusci Anne. It’s estimated that 300 million people worldwide have been trained in CPR, most of them having “kissed” her beautiful face.
But could a dead person really look that beautiful?
The fact that her face was so serene made it hard to believe that she was a victim of drowning. Usually, people get pretty panicky, swollen and decomposed in that situation. It’s not pretty.
So who was this immortalised beauty?
A long-lost twin who’d embarked on a love affair with a rich suitor and eloped to Paris? How very French. Or perhaps a Hungarian actress who was murdered by her lover! And what’s this all got to do with Michael Jackson?
SOURCES:
National EMS Museum: The Evolution of Resusci-Annie
BBC News: Resusci Anne and L'Inconnue: The Mona Lisa of the Seine by Jeremy Grange
How Stuff Works: How the CPR Doll Developed From a Famous Parisian Death Mask
Live Science: How a girl's 'death mask' from the 1800s became the face of CPR dolls
Laerdal Medical:SimMan 3G PLUS - Clinical Features
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Rod 00:00
Pretty much 150 years ago. We're in the French.
Will 00:04
France. 1873
Rod 00:06
is that 150 years ago? I can't do maths.
Rod 00:09
I'm the language guy. You look worried already. The lifeless body of a girl who looked about 16 was pulled from the Seine. Okay, so by lifeless lemon, she was dead. Yes, she was dead. Now her body showed no signs of violence at all. So they assumed she'd thrown herself in and this has been a deliberate act law. Her body was put on public display in a mortuary in hopes that someone could identify her. Which was not uncommon at the time.
Will 00:09
Yes it is.
Will 00:38
Okay, all right. No, I'm sure I'm sure. And it's not like it's not like out the front. Roll up, roll up, roll. Oh, look at these dead things we got. It's like, okay, are you missing? You're missing your 16 year old come and have a look. Yeah, it's public display just sounds a little gross and horrible.
Rod 00:53
A little more. But a couple of sources suggested maybe there was a bit more enthusiasm for such public displays than perhaps we would like these days. That's not critical to the story. But yeah, no one identified it. So at the morgue, a medical assistant went wow, look at serene and kind of tragically beautiful this woman is
Will 01:14
okay. Thanks, medical assistant. I'm just a bit worried.
Rod 01:22
Why? He sent a mouleur or Molder from the Lorenzi workshop in Paris to make a death mask. So he got a person to come along and make it quick.
Will 01:31
So she was so serene and beautiful. Gotta capture this one. Yes. Make me a death mask. I'm putting this one on my shelf
Rod 01:38
Straight to the pool room. It's going into a cabinet with all the other faces of corpses.
Will 01:42
I mean, once once you've started Yeah, I understand. You want to expand your death mass collection.
Rod 01:47
How many is enough? You got to capture all kinds. You got to get a cross section of the demographics of Paris in What did you say it was 1873?
Will 01:56
or maybe just the serene beautiful ones?
Rod 01:58
Just those. The guys who did it, the Lorenzi workshop, specialised in life and death masks of poets, artists, politicians, revolutionaries.
Will 02:07
We only do poets, artists, politicians. we don't do random. we don't do business people, sports people, industrialists, scientists. I can understand specialising in poet death masks like that's all I do.
Rod 02:24
No only did they
Will 02:25
So hang on. Just just pause for death mask here we're putting a lump of clay on people's face.
Rod 02:29
Yeah. plaster
Will 02:30
And wait until it dries and then you pop it off and you go well,
Rod 02:32
That's what they look like dead
Will 02:33
Yeah, well in reverse.
Rod 02:35
And then you fill it with goo and then you make the concrete head of it. That's what they call it. So they captured Napoleon, Robespierre, Victor Hugo, Beethoven, both alive and dead. They were famous for this. And they're still around BT Dubs. So anyway, they came in and said, yeah, we'll do this woman. She has a pleasant attractive face with a hint of a smile playing on her lips.
Will 03:02
Okay, you could just do it. You don't have to do a review of the face.
Rod 03:06
Her eyes are closed. But they look as if they might spring open at any moment. That's what she looks like.
Will 03:12
That's her death mask.
Rod 03:13
That's her death mask.
Will 03:16
She does look quite serene.
Rod 03:17
She looks very serene.
Will 03:18
You know what she looks like she's counting to 10 and hide and seek.
Will 03:22
Is that your face, because when I was counting 10 in hide and seek I was like 123456 I'm looking out the corner my eye I'm like
Will 03:28
Really?
Rod 03:28
Winning at all costs.
Will 03:30
no, no. hide and seek. The moment when you're counting is the most relaxed moment you are. So you have like 30 seconds and you just go, I'm going to account long and slow. Let them hide. And they can see they can sit there and hide for a long time. And I can sit here and pretend to count and I can just be asleep. You can count to like 700 like that
Rod 03:50
I mean, which one did you play though, where you have to stay where you hid or sneak up on them?
Will 03:54
I'm thinking more hide and seek with younger kids. And it's like, oh, this is a great chance for them to just run away from me. And I'll sit in the chair.
Rod 04:03
And then when their parents come and say why is my child did you go we're playing a game. I counted to 700 and had a nap I was just trying to give them a chance. So traffic is not a good place to hide. So soon the mask began to appear for sale outside the modellers workshop on the left bank. And it quickly became a muse for artists, novelists, poets, etc. And they're all eager to imagine the identities and the backstories of this woman.
Will 04:29
Yeah, okay. Why is she so relaxed? Is it hide and seek?
Rod 04:34
Did she count to 700 and have a nap?
Will 04:35
What other game could she be playing?
Rod 04:38
So yes, she she captured imaginations in the 1800s. She inspired paintings, tragic romantic stories. Albert Camus called her a drowned Mona Lisa because of the enigmatic style.
Will 04:50
I gotta look more this drowned Mona Lisa.
Rod 04:52
She looks it's sort of enigmatic.
Will 04:54
She doesn't look 16 though
Rod 04:56
no, they aged hard in 1870's. like hard. So back in the day, many upper class sitting rooms even middle class would have a copy of the mask like it was not uncommon to have this as part of your art ware. So it was mass produced was a sensation at the turn of the 20th century in Europe. She became known as L'Inconnue de la Seine, unknown woman of the Seine, and they still sell copies of this today and it's still apparently the best seller to date. but her influence extends well beyond 20th century or the tourney early 20th century. Her death mask went on to be had tipped in the line of a Michael Jackson song. Oh inspired a Norwegian toymaker to make a world changing shift in direction. And ultimately, she went on to be known as the most kissed face in the world.
Will 05:50
Welcome to the wholesome show, the podcast that will stop at nothing to breathe that's crossed out and then blow is written once and then blow again. I don't know I get to cross it out to blow deeply into the hole of science.
Rod 06:04
Totally on topic.
Will 06:05
You see what I got to work with?
Rod 06:07
This is what he's got to work with. It's a challenge. It's a challenge
Will 06:09
I'm Will Grant
Rod 06:10
I'm Rod Lamberts. So drownings or anything that really stops you to breathe until the dead is pretty uncool. Wouldn't you say?
Will 06:19
So your sentence was drownings are uncool.
Rod 06:22
Not only drowning like you know, asphyxiating and anyway, we're drowning is pretty shit.
Will 06:26
Sure.
Rod 06:27
We agree. And you thought we could not come to consensus.
Will 06:31
I think there is a problem with that one.
Rod 06:33
So 1956, a couple of anesthesiologists, Peter Safar and James Elam they met at a conference in Missouri. And Elam told Safar about a promising new technique called mouth to mouth ventilation. It was for resuscitating patients who'd stopped breathing. Particularly the drowning
Will 06:57
air from one mouth into the hole of the other mouth.
Rod 07:01
blowing Yeah, it's all legit. Yeah, I've never lead you astray. I never make you say terrible things that weren't relevant. Um, over the next few years, the two men developed the three step system. So you tilt the head back, compress the chest, do the mouth to mouth which would keep people alive also after heart attacks, etc, etc. And they call that CPR, cardio pulmonary resuscitation, to practice the new technique, Safar and Elam recruited coma patients.
Will 07:28
Oh
Rod 07:31
yeah, I didn't know that either. But it's okay. Okay, I got the family's consent. It's okay to get consent. But they would also sedate volunteers, including colleagues and each other to practice
Will 07:44
Jesus.
Rod 07:45
I know. And as you just noted, to when it's done correctly, it's violent enough to break bones. So you feel ribs break. You can risk internal organ damage.
Will 07:53
Oh my God
Rod 07:54
when I was first training to do it on 30 odd years ago, we had a very enthusiastic local country ambo who taught us and he said, basically, if you're not hearing ribs break, you're not doing it right.
Will 08:03
Ah, no, I think I think there is a stage beneath that.
Rod 08:07
Now he was an enthusiastic man. He was a very, very fat man, like amazingly fat. And apparently, whenever he was in an emergency scene, it was like he was gliding everything was fine. All the other times he could barely do up his shirt, and he staggered around. But as soon as the ship was down, it's gonna sit together because like a magic man was incredibly awesome. But yeah, he's like, not if you're not, if you're not hearing the ribs, right? You're not doing it right.
Will 08:27
let's not encourage that.
Rod 08:29
well, it's probably better than doing it to weekly and having no effect that like pitter patter pitter patter. Kids don't do it on children, that two fingers on babies. So that was 1956. They went, Oh, this sounds cool. Or rather, I'm Safar said thanks, Eelam. That sounds great. So flash forward a couple of years 1958 conference in Norway. Bjorn Lind was, I love this, was one of only 13 practising anesthesiologists in Norway. 1958 they were only 13.
Will 09:02
I wouldn't have known what number to guess though.
Rod 09:04
I would have guessed more than that, though. If you'd said how many Norwegian anesthesiologists were there in 1950? I would have said I know
Will 09:10
I would say I'm done with this trivia night.
Rod 09:12
I remembered the football scores
Will 09:16
Yeah, exactly. Prime Minister in like five years ago I got that that's fine. You know, what are the ingredients of boiled eggs? I don't need to guess how many Norwegian anesthesiologists there are in 1958. I just don't
Rod 09:34
so Bjørn Lind was only one and he went to a presentation at a medical conference where Peter Safar was talking about mouth to mouth ventilation. And now, this is the quote from one of the sources Norway is home to a vibrant maritime culture.
Rod 09:47
Yes, but not enough anesthesiologists
Rod 09:49
Well, yeah, but they also a lot of drowning victims. How do we we need to help them? Yeah, right. Because a lot of us splash around and
Will 09:56
yeah, we're sea captains.
Rod 09:57
Yes, we are all sea captains and some of us get the water in the lung, okay, so he saw CPR went this, this is cool. We can we can use this. So he goes back to his hospital in the small Norwegian city of Stavanger. And his colleagues had the same problems as Safar and Elam. They're like well, we want to practice it but for some reason people don't want to volunteer. wanted people to get their spleen rupture
Will 10:26
Oh my God.
Rod 10:28
So he wants recruited his own wife even to help but she sedated her but like he was demonstrating CPR. And so she said, I'll do it so it knocks her out and demonstrate CPR
Will 10:37
for demonstration do you need to be knocked out?
Rod 10:40
If you're demonstrating with gusto?
Will 10:43
Sure, God
Rod 10:44
It's pretty fucked up. I know. It's tricky, tricky. So in this same town, same small town, Stavanger also lived Asmund Laerdal, and he had a toy manufacturing plant, one of the biggest toy makers in Europe, Laerdal toys, and he was also a pioneer in soft plastics. So his best selling toys were a line of soft plastic cars and trucks and a baby doll named Anne. I didn't know what she was called Anne, that's just what it was. So because of his pioneering spirit and techniques in soft plastics, the Norwegian Civil Defence mob said, Can you give us some realistic looking plastic models of wounds for training Military medics? And so they did things like was it the Proko plastic kit? 33 adhesive wounds complete with pumps for squirting out fake blood? Oh, cool. Fuck yeah. Les doll, the owner of the company heard through the Red Cross, there was work being done on CPR by Lind, and with some Americans as well. And he thought I've got I can help. There's an opportunity I'm gonna help out. And he's probably pretty psyched to do it necause in 1955, so three years earlier, he'd saved his own son from drowning, grabbed him out of the water, just in time, cleared his airways, and he lived.
Will 11:03
He didn't do CPR.
Rod 11:43
No, no, but he's just like, this shit matters and it's personal. So he called Lind and said, I'll make you an adult sized and doll. Yeah, to practice CPR.
Will 12:12
I thought the doll was like a doll doll
Rod 12:14
it was originally but now he made he said, I'll make a grownup sized one.
Will 12:17
Why don't we make something that looks like a human rather than?
Rod 12:22
Why would you? He makes dolls, he doesn't make humans. That would be monstrous. So according to Lind, the anaesthetist, this call changed and decided the track of my career. So Laerdal contact him and said, I can help you or I can do something for you. So together, they designed the world's first CPR training mannequin, which they called Resusci Anne. Yeah. And I think anyone listening who's older than none has probably at least heard of, if not actually used
Will 12:49
Had a go at one
Rod 12:50
Yeah ditto. 1960 They brought their prototype to the US and they showed it to Safar and other CPR pioneers, including a guy called Archer Gordon, about whom I know nothing and that's the end of him. It was safaris idea to put a metal spring in the chest to practice compression. So when beyond breathing, actually get the feeling for that.
Will 13:07
What do we have before?
Rod 13:08
No spring? Straight through. heart stop, blowing them out. Laerdal and Lind decided that the mannequin should be female because nearly all doctors were male at the time, and they would feel more comfortable kissing a female doll. so it had to be a lady.
Will 13:27
Well, you know, it's better than having to having to be a guy because that's the default, as you said before, so it's actually positive femininity. Why don't you have one side each
Rod 13:38
half male, half female split down the middle,
Will 13:39
Not down the middle. You just flip it over and then you can try. So it's a lady on the front guy on the back.
Rod 13:46
Flip you flip over for the male. I'm learning today. So then came the real issue. What should she look like? So Laerdal was visiting some relatives and he looked up on the wall of their lounge room and saw the serene death mask.
Will 14:01
Obviously, we need a serene, beautiful 16 year old who drowned in the Seine.
Rod 14:06
Yeah. And he said, Fuck, this would be perfect for my CPR.
Will 14:09
Why couldn't we just have robot face? Yeah, like you need a mouth hole and a nose hole and you have some eyes to sort of guide your hand
Rod 14:18
but look at her beauty and her mystery. He just modified it slightly slightly parted lips and ahead of fake air and he created a mannequin.
Will 14:25
That's right. She didn't have parted lips because she was relaxed.
Rod 14:28
Yeah, as always happened. So she became the face of the original CPR doll. And today Laerdal is now the largest manufacturer of medical simulation mannequins in the world, including baby sized CPR dolls, interactive patient simulators, and mannequins that give birth
Will 14:45
same drowned girl of the Seine on all of them? They just know scope it down to put some beard on it for the man, size it down for the baby
Rod 14:55
Make it look even younger, aged up a bit for geriatric CPR. Nah the tech they're doing is wild. It's gotten a lot fancy and you can see here they've electrified it and you know as you can imagine, there's lots of extra bits
Will 15:08
Yeah, but that's still the drowned woman of the Seine. She came not to life but
Rod 15:14
she's had an influence. But my favourite just because obviously when exploring their latest my favourite medical sim is sim man 3g Plus
Will 15:22
Jesus
Rod 15:25
it has fucking horrific and awesome spontaneous breathing the pupils dilate so when you put a light up to it that like little camera apertures Wow, it blinks which is creepy as fuck.
Will 15:35
Wow, that's wild.
Rod 15:37
It's sweat. But only from certain holes like it doesn't have an overall sheen. goo comes out its ears.
Will 15:42
Some people don't sweat from some places. Some people only do the arm sweat or they only do
Rod 15:48
but in the answer it's like one hole under the arm. also because they didn't want to make it racist. You can change the face skin. And I recommend the video it's in the show notes. But there they are. There's still a change in the face skin. It's quite horrific kind of Westworld robot looking contraption now, yeah, but it's fully articulated like you can give it injections or kinds of intubations up the nose. You can it actually simulates breathing, you can lean it up and listen to its back in its front like it is full on. So who was the Drowned Mona Lisa? question about whether she was actually drowned? Is this true? Because so the author of the main article is from the BBC guy called Jeremy Grange. He wanted to do some digging, he wanted to know more. So he goes, Okay, I'm gonna go and check out Lorenzi, the current model making, the live version. So he goes over to Paris talks to Michel Lorenzi, who's the current owner, proprietor, and the guy says, look, it doesn't look like the face of a dead person to me. It's very hard to maintain a smile while a cast is being taken so I think she was probably a professional and a very good model as well. So he's like, I don't I don't think she was dead. Okay. So Grange the author goes further and says, Look, I'm gonna I'm gonna get some real input here. So he goes to people who work on the Seine River police, known as the Brigade Fluviale
Will 17:10
I want to know what a particular drowned person on the Seine would form like, so why would you look in another layer? There's a specific Seine drowning face.
Rod 17:18
I think he just wanted to go to Paris.
Will 17:19
Sure, sure. She'll look very different from drowning in the Thames or Lake Burley Gryphon.
Rod 17:25
So he speaks to the chief Brigadier Pascal Yaqeen, who was less convinced that the girl was dead when the mask was made. He was like yeah I don't think so. Because Pascal knows from years of dredging bodies out of the Seine that the truth is very different to the way she looked, even people suiciding, as he puts it, fight for life at the last moment. Struggle. Yeah. And then the process of decomposition starts very, very quickly. So he says it's surprising to see such a peaceful face. Everyone we find in the water, drowned and suicides, they never look so peaceful. They're swollen. They don't look nice.
Will 17:58
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Rod 17:59
So he's like, naaa, I don't think so. So who was she? So the BBC reporter goes on. This is Jeremy Grange. Again, one story. He kept digging because like we put out a story in general and then people contacted him. One was he went to visit the Edward chambray Hartman's photographic studio in Liverpool. Sure, you'll know about that. So it's apparently it's owned by the National Trust and they perfectly preserve it like a time capsule, the first half of the 20th century. It's the only little spot anyone who was anyone apparently Liverpool would sit for a portrait with this fella Hardman, so he wanders in and he sees that mask on the wall, because there's the death mask. And he says, as he put it, he asked the guide disingenuously, who is that? the guide says without hesitation, the story this is a story about two sisters identical twins who'd been born in Liverpool more than a century ago. One of them she said, had embarked on a love affair with a rich suitor and elope to Paris and never to be seen again.
Will 18:53
Oh my God.
Rod 18:54
Many years later, the other sister visited Paris on holiday. Walking down the street, she was shocked to see the mask of the Drowned girl hanging outside the modellers workshops. She instantly recognised the girl as her long lost twin, condemned or blessed to remain forever young while her sister grew old. So it's pretty exciting. unverified
Will 19:15
Oh, so she's still reckons maybe dead though. It wasn't some sort of she ran away and faked her death
Rod 19:21
there's a lot of questions. Okay. Was it a death mask at all? If it was, was it a drowning. If it wasn't, who was it? If it was who was it? And Oxford based artists a bit later called John Gato. He thought I'm going to create a story like a detective fiction around who this person was
Will 19:45
that's not going to tell us what happened.
Rod 19:46
Well, so he made up this whole evidence trail that ultimately culminated in the woman being a Hungarian actress named Eva Laszlo.
Will 19:55
Of course Eva
Rod 19:56
who was murdered by her lover Louis are gone even
Will 19:59
Of course. again.
Rod 20:00
And so that's fine. I actually made up a story because she's like, poems had been written about her ways. Like she had this whole mystery about it for about a century and a half. And this is fine, but then Granger, the author was at a London symposium for European restart the heart day. In the evening, the entertainment was provided by an ensemble who were putting on a performance which, according to what they say, tells the story of you, Eva Laszlo who became the inspiration for the face of assessee. In the first CPR training mannequin and the most kissed girl in the world.
Will 20:29
It's not kissing.
Rod 20:31
No, but that's what
Will 20:32
I know you said kissing I thought there would be like a fetish of people kissing death masks. But it's not a kiss. Yeah, I know. I know, mouth on mouth. But to keep people alive.
Rod 20:44
I agree with you. However. That's what it's often referred to. And it's not uncommon to see this story. This admitted fiction quoted as a real story, of course, yeah. So it's quite common. So the reason they say most kiss face in the world as well as because more than probably 300 million people have trained on her face.
Will 21:05
Seems a bit unfair.
Rod 21:06
Yeah, it's not kissing. Like, if that's your idea of kissing, you need to ask your parents for more advice.
Will 21:12
also, if you're donating your face to be tested on, I think you need a bit of consent for this.
Rod 21:18
I don't know. I'm here to donate.
Will 21:21
I don't know. I mean, well, okay. So if you if you were, if you're at a university, and you said okay, I'm gonna come up with a new rival to Resusci, and I'm gonna call it, Keith. Resusci Keith, and I'm gonna go out on the campus and find a Keith. We need your face, and we're going to make 300 million of these things. I feel like that wouldn't be appropriate consent. I feel like you have to you can't just take a student's face
Rod 21:46
And there were discussions of ethics before people who weren't even into the whole, who was she? Did she die, etc. There was a lot of discussion about is it ethical to just take this person's face and use it as well? I don't know. It wasn't even a real human I'm not entirely sure. So I mentioned Michael Jackson in the early 70s Michael Jackson got some CPR training. Of course at that time what you were told to do with Resusci Anne, almost every training session began with the words Annie Are you okay?
Will 22:14
No. stop it You're horrible.
Rod 22:20
I'm not making it up
Will 22:21
You're horrible.
Rod 22:23
And it just turned into Are you okay is the kickoff but boom we have smooth criminal
Will 22:26
oh my god the origin story of smooth criminal. You're the worst.
Rod 22:31
It's not from me. I'm serious. I'm not making that up. At least two sources at least. Yeah. Which you can check it in the show notes and if you want more pictures have a look at in the show notes the evolution of Resusci Anne
Will 22:43
so I think they should have just gone Anne's face but just different colours and then it looks like she's doing blackface or something like that. Now that probably wouldn't be one that's probably not right.
Rod 22:54
Far be it for me to approve of something terrible like that.
Will 22:58
probably could have gone with green and just go it's definitely not human. But then would you lack the empathy to really care to fix that person if they are green, as opposed to the deep empathy you feel for I feel that anytime I've had to go on a Resusci doll I've felt a deep connection?
Rod 23:16
I'm proud of you. Because you care about people.
