The notion of a humanoid machine was developed way back in the early 20th century. We’ve come a long way since then, integrating robots into every crevice of our lives. And we mean, every crevice.
We’ve got robot vacuum cleaners, retail robots, manufacturing robots and military robots. But what about the sexy robots? The masturbots? The love machines? Well, we were asked a stimulating question by a listener about this particular breed of bots: Is sex with a robot cheating? As it turns out, there is peer-reviewed research on the topic and where ethics, research and sexy robots meet, you’ll always find The Wholesome Show.
Now there are a few robots out there designed for giving (and receiving) sexual pleasure. The RealDollx from Abyss comes with realistic breastplates and a functioning vagina. But if you’re really in need of some loving, the Harmony line of sexbots boasts a mind-blowing X-Mode for your wildest sexual desires. These robots incorporate technology like numerous sensors, feedback, animated facial expressions, and even vaginal “arousal” detection that reacts to touch and escalates the intimacy until climax.
Enthusiasts of such delightful devices are known as iDollators, Synthetiks, or robosexuals, and sometimes see their dolls as life partners rather than mere sex toys. Like Brick Dollbanger (perhaps not his real name) who, becoming disillusioned with the dating scene, formed a collection of 4 robots to keep him company. Or a French woman named Lilly, who 3D-printed her own inMoovator robot and sleeps with it every night. And we can’t forget Davecat who has “married” his computerised companion and even has a mechanised mistress too!
So if these people have genuine intimate relationships with their robots, would it constitute cheating if they also had a human spouse? While some might consider sex with robots merely elaborate masturbation, others vehemently disagree with some believing thoughts and dreams of another human (or humanoid) constitute infidelity.
In one survey, 42% of people viewed a spouse turning to a robot for stimulation during marriage as cheating, while 31% disagreed, and 26% were unsure. Younger respondents were more open to the idea (kids these days!). Part of the conundrum, however, is that we struggle to classify what sex with a robot actually is and therefore, whether or not it is cheating.
For those who think not, what if your partner brought home a sex robot that was customised to look like their ex-partner? And for those who think it is cheating, would you classify the use of dildos or fleshlights as cheating? Yet another spectrum for us to navigate in this rich tapestry of life.
Ultimately, it comes down to your personal definition of infidelity within your relationship. Talk to your partner (your human one) and get clear on each others’ thoughts before dabbling with a digital dong, mounting the mechanised manhood, or tickling the techno taco. And hey, if you’re gonna go for it, why not push the envelope with the mind-blowing X-mode?
SOURCES:
Emotional Intimacy and the Idea of Cheating on Committed Human–Human Relationships with a Robot, by Julie Carpenter
Harmony sex robots with 'mind-blowing' new X-MODE to finally hit the market THIS MONTH
Married to a Doll: Why One Man Advocates Synthetic Love, by Julie Beck
RealDoll's first sex robot took me to the uncanny valley, by Christopher Trout
The Quiet Professional: An investigation of U.S. military Explosive Ordnance Disposal personnel interactions with everyday field robots, Phd thesis by Julie Carpenter
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[00:00:00] Alex: Is sex with a robot cheating?
[00:00:01] Will: There has been a long history of people rubbing their genitals on inanimate objects. Yeah, I think mostly we would just call that elaborate masturbation. If that inanimate object is humanoid looking, we've stepped a little bit, if that inanimate object is humanoid and reacts in human ways, getting a bit further, if we get to a place where the robot, as before more, give me, this is great, I am loving this feeling.
[00:00:26] Rod: Also, I read a book you'd really enjoy, let's talk about it afterwards. Well, you'd strap ChatGPT into one of these things, and I mean obviously it hallucinates like crazy and gives you bad references, but I think, I feel like it's the point of where you're emotionally interacting that you're really getting murky.
[00:00:47] Will: This one is a request from a listener. Ooh, from listener Alex.
[00:00:51] Rod: Hey Alex. Thank you. I think, we'll see.
[00:00:54] Will: Well, Alex has written in and requested that we explore a topic. I don't quite know the backstory. I don't quite know the backstory, but it's a question that science will need to grapple with in the years to come.
[00:01:07] Rod: There's a lot of buildup here. This is, I mean, I'm expecting a lot right now.
[00:01:11] Will: Is sex with a robot cheating?
[00:01:15] Rod: No.
[00:01:23] Will: Welcome to The Wholesome Show.
[00:01:25] Rod: A podcast that would never cheat on the whole of science. Not if it could catch us.
[00:01:31] Will: Not me. I'm Will Grant.
[00:01:32] Rod: I'm Rod Lamberts. I've never cheated on a robot.
[00:01:36] Will: Let's step back from the ethical dilemma for just a second. Where are we at with the sexy robots first? Well, I haven't done a deep dive into this. I've just looked around the market. There's been fairly inanimate sex dolls on the market for quite some time.
[00:01:48] Rod: And by fairly you mean completely inert.
[00:01:50] Will: Yes they're mannequins with holes. There are a growing number of things on the market that are robot ish. They have movements, they make noises, they react to things that are for sex.
[00:02:01] Rod: Keep talking.
[00:02:02] Will: Yeah. There's the RealDoll X from Abyss Creations. It comes with realistic breastplates and functioning vaginas.
[00:02:09] Rod: So it can have a baby out of it?
[00:02:10] Will: I don't know how functioning they mean, like, if someone makes a sex doll that goes all the way through pregnancy and giving baby, I'm like, oh damn.
[00:02:20] Rod: Not only do you get laid, you get to learn about responsibility.
[00:02:24] Will: You get to not have a night of sleep ever again.
[00:02:26] Rod: Oh. That's the, what is it? The woe X yahoo?
[00:02:29] Will: That's the RealDoll X or Realbotix harmony robots. And they've got the supposedly mind blowing X mode. The X mode will allow the harmony robot to fulfill your wildest sexual desires.
[00:02:43] If of course, your wildest sexual desires are sex with a robot. It does some interesting things. The X mode is, it's like a sensor in the headboard of the robot that enables harmony to detect movement, orient, and respond to noises and expressions and Well, it's eye, mouth, neck movement, also the vaginal insert has Bluetooth and transitions from mild arousal to orgasm. So the robot supposedly
[00:03:09] Rod: Comedy cum cums
[00:03:10] Will: I don't know.
[00:03:11] Rod: Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't know how I'm coming. Like, it's, is it like, I've never felt anything like this before.
[00:03:17] Will: I'm straight in the robot and bang. I am out of control.
[00:03:20] Rod: I've blown my mother load. Well, I mean, motherboard,
[00:03:25] Will: Of course, with these sex robots. There are, of course, the people that the enthusiasts who call themselves idolaters,
[00:03:33] Rod: Not sex robot enthusiasts?
[00:03:35] Will: No, they've got shorter names. Well, there is techno sexuals or robo sexuals or synthetics.
[00:03:40] Rod: Oh, you big fucking dorks trying to toughen yourself up. You're banging a toaster, dude.
[00:03:47] Will: Three people that declare themselves idolaters. There's Davecat who either met his wife, Sidor Kuroneko at a goth club in the year 2000, or Bought her online for 6, 000
[00:04:00] Rod: Built her in his basement.
[00:04:01] Will: Yeah, he's got a backstory.
[00:04:02] Rod: Wife.
[00:04:03] Will: Yeah, well, he's got a wife and a mistress.
[00:04:05] Rod: Are they both robots?
[00:04:06] Will: Both robots.
[00:04:07] Rod: Let's get this guy on.
[00:04:08] Will: He is answering your question before is it cheating?
[00:04:11] Rod: If it's a different robot. So no? Oh, well this wife robot know about his mistress robot and does she like,
[00:04:19] Will: well, in this picture, all three of them are together.
[00:04:21] Rod: So are the two robots actually, is their power switch on?
[00:04:26] Will: Oh he stresses as well that you shouldn't call them sex dolls. Cause he looks at his robots as life partners and says, and I love this calling them sex dolls is like calling your real life boyfriend or girlfriend, a sex boyfriend or girlfriend.
[00:04:40] Rod: Wait, you're not supposed to?
[00:04:42] Will: Yeah. He says, don't call them sex dolls.
[00:04:43] Rod: That would explain so many of my recent fights.
[00:04:45] Will: They are my inanimate partners or vaguely animate partners.
[00:04:48] Rod: Look, I mean, look, to be fair, I don't care if you want to bang a robot and enjoy yourself, marry them, do whatever you want, but it's hard not to have fun with it, but ultimately go ahead and whatever. Don't get electrocuted.
[00:04:58] Will: Yeah, exactly. Be careful. Don't do it in the bath.
[00:05:00] Rod: What is it? The real doll pulsating vagasmatron 9-17. Don't overpower it because that, that might go too far.
[00:05:09] Alex: All right. There's another guy, Brick Dollbanger. I don't think that's his real name.
[00:05:14] Rod: The guy had no choice.
[00:05:15] Will: I'm German, dollbanger. He's had years of experience trying out various sex dolls. He's happy with the word sex dolls, after divorcing his wife of 15 years.
[00:05:22] Rod: She human?
[00:05:23] Will: Yeah, she was human. Numerous relationships didn't pan out and then became disillusioned. So he's got a collection of four sex dolls. All of the idolaters or, you know, the, these sorts of people definitely are talking about much wider things like that. They're like, it makes me happy seeing them on the couch when I get home from work or whatever. They're talking much more than just the physical pleasure.
[00:05:41] Rod: They are a literal human substitute.
[00:05:44] Will: Something like that, or at least partly. Okay. And then there's Lilly who built her own inMoovator. 3d printed all of the parts hers looks way more robotic than the others like less silicon and more like robot parts
[00:05:57] Rod: like c3po
[00:05:59] Will: Yeah, more of the c3po. Yeah, there's her sitting on a park bench
[00:06:03] Rod: oh, wow, definitely a robot.
[00:06:05] Will: Definitely a robot. She sleeps with him, it.
[00:06:07] Rod: Yeah What are the pronouns?
[00:06:08] Will: Gender is an interesting one here. It was weird like reading this In the article I'm going to talk about, definitely use the language gendered as, and it's like, yes, of course they are. Cause they are not boys or girls.
[00:06:18] Rod: They are machines.
[00:06:20] Will: I couldn't find any data on how many, what percentage of idolaters are men or women, but you can probably guess.
[00:06:27] Rod: They don't fill in the surveys when I send them to them for some reason.
[00:06:29] Will: Yeah. I had a look. The suspicion is it's largely men doing this. Largely hetero men. But there were two reasons that they said is that by far the market, the production market is dominated by making dolls that are gendered as women.
[00:06:42] There are dolls that are gendered as men. And some people reckon actually they're mostly taken up by gay men rather than by women. Although there's certainly are some.
[00:06:49] Rod: Or in case they're straight curious.
[00:06:51] Will: No gay men taking up the male gendered robot.
[00:06:53] Rod: Oh, I thought you meant the female gendered.
[00:06:55] Will: No. I'm sure there's people that are curious, that are like, this is how I experiment with being gay is with a robot. I dunno. Some people said yeah, look your sex doll's a bit too heavy for most ladies you know, you gotta got to be pretty strong to move these things around.
[00:07:09] Rod: Cause the only way to do it is missionary with the man on top. We all know that. To even move it?
[00:07:12] Will: To even move it.
[00:07:13] Rod: This one's 104 kilos, mostly pneumatics and batteries. Jesus Christ. Imagine the noise on the steam. I blow in a gasket.
[00:07:24] Will: So look, possibly there is a bit of labor in moving some of these around. Let's get down to the heart of the ethical dilemmas.
[00:07:30] Rod: That's not the heart I was hoping for. Carry on.
[00:07:32] Will: So the big ethical dilemmas you know, things that society worries about, but I don't know if we should , first one is will robot dolls in the future get so good at fucking that they'll literally fuck us to death? People get so addicted to it. Like the sex in a sex robot,
[00:07:49] Rod: fuck us into oblivion because we don't reproduce? Or kill us with the intercourse?
[00:07:53] Will: Both sides. People are like, this is actually something to worry about in the sex robot.
[00:07:57] Rod: We'll get to the point where you'll go like, Oh, look, I'd love to have sex with you, but you know, we're near as good as my robots. I'm not even aroused.
[00:08:04] Will: In fairness. It's not something I'm deeply worried about.
[00:08:07] Rod: Yeah. And look, that's a lot. I think there'll be other things in that kind of future going on that we might have to think about as well,
[00:08:13] Will: all right, let's go to Alex's ethical dilemma. If you make love with a robot, is it cheating on your significant other?
[00:08:23] Rod: Who is, we're going to say for the purpose of this, a human
[00:08:26] Will: yes, human relationship. And there is a robot and luckily this is the interesting thing to me, it's been covered in the peer reviewed literature. A great article by Julie Carpenter, Emotional Intimacy and the Idea of Cheating on Committed Human Relationships with a Robot.
[00:08:40] So a lot of definitional work we have to work out on what cheating means and what a robot means. Part of her study, she put in there's a couple of polls out there on what people think. Eighteen percent of respondents in 2013 thought that there'd be sexual oriented robots alone by 2030. Another one said it'll be commonplace for people having sex with robots in like 50 years. Okay, how many people would have sex with them?
[00:09:02] Rod: Nine.
[00:09:03] Will: Nine percent, yes. In 2013, 9 percent of people claimed, yeah, I'd have sex with a robot if I've got the opportunity. By 2017, it was up to 14 percent by 2020, 22%. So we've gone over a decade there or less than a decade from like 9 percent of people saying, yeah, I'll have sex with a robot to 22%.
[00:09:20] Rod: Do you have this broken down by sexual proclivity or like preference?
[00:09:25] Will: We do have it broken down fairly sensibly by gender. I don't have sexual preference, but they did break it down by social network, and I'll tell you that one in a second. So, unsurprisingly men more than women, but not exclusively. So in the 2017 survey, 24% of men said they'd have sex with a robot. 9 percent of women. What was it? I'm going to have to remember these stats, but it looked at social network.
[00:09:49] What are your dominant social network is like, if you use Twitter back when it was Twitter or Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever, all of them were fairly flat, you know, average around the same, except Myspace, like it's people who use Myspace far more happy with fucking a robot.
[00:10:06] Rod: So this might be why we need stinked. They couldn't breathe themselves in anymore.
[00:10:11] Will: I don't know. I don't know. That's 15 years old. It's old. So if you're still using that, maybe you're like an old school, I don't know what it is. Weirdly, 52 percent of the people who were open to having sex with a robot, so remember it's not everyone, but you know, it's up to 24 percent of men, said they had any preference for a human like robot design.
[00:10:31] Rod: Yeah, weird, I want it to look like a fricking toaster with arms. And then I really want to get in there
[00:10:35] Will: I want a full on industrial robot, like put
[00:10:38] Rod: those things that cut sheet metal,
[00:10:40] Will: put a vagina somewhere on there and that's the one for me.
[00:10:43] Rod: Better put it near the off button. Cause we shit could get weird. I mean, look, there's going to be a subset of her like strong preference. This must not look like a human.
[00:10:55] Will: I want the robot, but I don't want the humanoid elements of it.
[00:10:59] Rod: Maybe that's less cheaty than if it's humanoid. I suppose it's going to come up. Sweetheart, of course it can't replace you. It looks like a bridge.
[00:11:06] Will: Sadly, you know, in, in the data I'm going to tell you, so they didn't have, if it was a bridge that you're fucking that's robotic
[00:11:13] Rod: yeah, like transformer in car form or humanoid form, I mean.
[00:11:17] Will: Is it having sex with a robot while you're in a committed human relationship? Is it cheating? Opinions are mixed. When asked about the ethics of a spouse turning to a robot for stimulation during the marriage, 42 percent of respondents said this act would be viewed as cheating. Whereas 31 percent would say it would be not regarded as cheating. 26 were unsure. So people, I think what that says is, I don't know.
[00:11:39] Rod: Okay. Let's take it back away from having arms and legs. Yep. Your partner whacking the old electronic device in their hole of choice without the partner there. Is that cheating?
[00:11:50] Will: Well, survey says we're not sure. You're asking me?
[00:11:53] Rod: So a dude using a fleshlight that has electronics. Is he cheating?
[00:11:56] Will: Here's the interesting thing. Another part of this study, it did say that people were unsure how to categorize this. So like 14 percent said, yes, it's intercourse, you know, robot penis, robot vagina, and your penis or vagina. 14 percent said, yes, that's intercourse. Only 14%, only 14%, 33 percent said masturbation. 27% didn't feel if it was either of those straight away. And then that doesn't add up to 100%. There's still people that are unsure. Like, people are like, okay, I don't know what it's classified as.
[00:12:29] Rod: So American Pie. banging the pie. Is that cheating?
[00:12:33] Will: This is where I think is the interesting thing because I think the people answering the survey and the people looking at the ethics of this there's a sliding scope of the reaction and the autonomousness.
[00:12:44] Rod: Autonomousness must have a lot to do with it.
[00:12:46] Will: There has been a long history of people rubbing their genitals on inanimate objects and I think mostly we would just call that elaborate masturbation. If that inanimate object is humanoid looking, we've stepped a little bit.
[00:13:00] If that inanimate object is humanoid and reacts in human ways, getting a bit further, if we get to a place where the robot as before, more, more, give me, this is great, I am loving this feeling.
[00:13:12] Rod: Also, I read a book you'd really enjoy. Let's talk about it afterwards. Well, you'd strap chat GPT into one of these things. And I mean, obviously it hallucinates like crazy and gives you bad references, but I think, I feel like it's the point of where you're emotionally interacting, that you're really getting murky.
[00:13:27] Will: If the robot has an orgasm, like, and you're trying to give the robot an orgasm.
[00:13:32] Rod: So then you can say to your partner, I've got one of these export 9 millions, but I've turned off the orgasm switch. Okay. So I'm not cheating because when I bang it, it doesn't care.
[00:13:44] Will: So, you know, I'm, I think, you know, your analogy of the American pie or the flesh light or a dildo or something like that. That's right down the masturbation end because it's an object that has nothing in there.
[00:13:55] Rod: What we're saying, the robot may have some kind of agency or just ability to respond.
[00:14:00] Will: I don't know, because it's not like, you know, okay, there may come a time when you have self aware AI and that may be a different thing, but on the spectrum coming closer to that. All of the reactions, like if part of what you're doing is getting the robot to feel something or mimic that feeling, what is it?
[00:14:19] Rod: I'm going to go with intent, the intent of the transgressor or the alleged or apparent in transgressor that says, I'm going to bang this because I find my spouse unbangable or other terms. I mean, so if your intent is, you're doing this because you no longer wish to, or whatever, have sex with your significant other, I think that's sneaking down the cheating side. But if it's just like, I just like getting off a lot and with her, with him, with it, with that, maybe that's less so. I think intent matters.
[00:14:47] Will: A hundred percent. People have different boundaries on what cheating is. Certainly, there are some that say even thinking a certain way is cheating is, I mean, that, that might be hard to control.
[00:14:56] Rod: Did you, did you think about that person? What about your dreams?
[00:14:59] Will: No doubt there are people that police boundaries in different ways to other people. I've heard well up the other end, you know, I think I've said this before, ideas that having sex with a condom is not cheating because you're not fully touching.
[00:15:12] Rod: There. Everywhere else. Are you wearing a body condom? I know we talked about this.
[00:15:16] Will: So Alex, I'm not sure if we've fully solved your ethical dilemma, but what I would say
[00:15:21] Rod: stimulating question.
[00:15:22] Will: What I would say is firstly, probably have a chat with your your human partner about what boundaries are. If you're worried about cheating and you might say, you know, is looking at porn cheating? Some people it is.
[00:15:35] Rod: Wait, what?
[00:15:36] Will: Well, talk to your human partner about what the definition of cheating inside your relationship is. But clearly robots open the door to getting closer that maybe it might be getting down that way. Have a chat. Have a chat. Listener, if you have an ethical science related dilemma
[00:15:55] Rod: Oh, we're your guys.
[00:15:56] Will: We are the solvers. We will help you to walk through, all the way through your journey.
[00:16:00] Rod: I actually am an ethics guy. Impeccable source.
[00:16:03] Will: Send them in. Find us on MySpace.
