Written By Brianna Ansaldo
 

Ok... to people who don't do it, it's weird and gross and wrong. But to people who do do it, it's basically the golden fountain of youth.

We have been fascinated with our own urine for a while now (humans that is, not the two of us). Back in medieval times, urine was considered to be a crucial diagnostic tool. Using a urine wheel, these medieval folks would diagnose disease based on the colour, smell, and taste (yes, taste) of a person's wee. Presumably by the time the colour got to ‘black as very dark horn’ the prognosis was not excellent.

This practice morphed into more urine-related fun times, specifically uromancy - a form of divination by studying urine. AKA Piss Prophets.

And then we come to urophagia. The weird gross quack medicine that is drinking your own urine! Urine was used in several ancient cultures for various health, healing and cosmetic purposes…and still is today.

Coen van der Kroon is a present-day advocate and has written an entire book researching both the history and present-day uses of urine. The book is very aptly called The Golden Fountain.

You’ll be relieved to know that van der Kroon tackles his subject with sensitivity and conviction. The book is not only a comprehensive history of urine use but a user-friendly guide to urine’s practical application. The health benefits and life enhancing properties he (and his devotees) claim are numerous. Revitalised energy, a cure for depression, immune system boosting…

Why on earth have we not caught onto this earlier?

You may not have ever wanted to know about this practice, but your intrepid explorers at The Wholesome Show have done the hard yards for you today - so sit back, pour yourself a glass of something delicious, and enjoy!

 
 
 

  • Rod 00:00
    Hi. So we're on a break right now I hope you are too. And it's wonderful where we are. I don't know if it's wonderful where they are and how wonderful we are. I am wonderful where William is and where I am. So we thought we'd delve back into the archives because we got quite a back catalogue now, and some of the old ones maybe you haven't gone into, for example, this one, an episode provocatively titled, the many uses of urine. It comes from early 2019. I know it's one of your favourites will run, you'd love to use a bit of urine.

    Will 00:26
    I constantly think about using the waste.

    Rod 00:30
    What is the waste of the waste product? Exactly. But you will get through a lot of good things that people who drink it or euro fade to people who use it to Scrye things you romancey it's one of my faves. I'm gonna have a pedal until the future down to more prosaic things like washing your clothes unit and stuff. I'm not recommending any of these of course. And finally, a little bit of a delve into the Bible of urine business. The Golden Fountain.

    Will 00:57
    Oh Jesus. We'll be back with fresh episodes at the end of January. Enjoy your break. Welcome to The Wholesome Show the science hugging podcast. I thought I'd start with you. For people who sit up the back of the classroom

    Rod 01:32
    where we ask all the stupid questions. So you don't have to probably don't want to either.

    Will 01:38
    Well, they might want to I don't know. I want to you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna love it. The wholesome show is me. Dr. Will Grant

    Rod 01:47
    me Dr. Roderick Gryphon, Lamberts OBE. I'm still sticking with the OBE.

    Will 01:51
    You can't do that. And we're joined today by...

    Sam Vilkins 01:54
    Sam Vilkens BSC

    Will 01:57
    excellent to have you Sam Vilkens BPSC M.Psych.Comm.

    Rod 02:02
    Yes, semi PhD.

    Sam Vilkins 02:04
    It's not how it works,

    Will 02:05
    But you can't put that after you name.

    Rod 02:06
    Can you be half PhD,?

    Will 02:08
    You can be half PhD but you don't put it after your name pseudo PhD the wholesome show is brought to you by the Australian National Centre for the public awareness of science at the Australian National University in Australia. Yes, the nation's capital of Australia

    Rod 02:24
    that we are the capital of the nation's capital. And we bring you all your science communication needs from undergrad to PhD a little bit beyond consulting and as we discussed in our last episode, we'll even come and do your weddings for you. Why would you have a band when you could have us talking? I ask myself all the time...

    Will 02:42
    Do you want to ruin your wedding? Like I'm sure people that there might be people sabotaging their weddings deliberately. They're like, Okay, what's the I want to get out of this wedding as quickly as I can but I don't want to you know,

    Rod 02:52
    I needed you book a bit better. So much better

    Will 02:56
    I booked a podcast

    Sam Vilkins 02:58
    You're instead of the band not say the priest

    Rod 03:01
    No the band.

    Will 03:02
    Yeah, we don't we don't have legitimate powers to do it to be to celebrate a wedding. I'm prepared to give them me to me to like it listener Jesus. Let's do that. If you want us to actually be your celebrant at the wedding. That would be great too.

    Rod 03:14
    I mean, I'm free Sunday. My wedding will not be acknowledged but it'll be fun to do it.

    Will 03:20
    I don't know how quickly you can become your become a celebrant

    Rod 03:23
    do you actually, you know, I did look into this a couple of years ago. And it takes quite a while you got to do a course you know with the government how you if you want to do you can do like weddings.

    Will 03:37
    Like if you're gonna be a cuddling wedding, it might take a bit longer Yeah, you're

    Rod 03:40
    gonna go through other hazing rituals. Yes, a Catholic marriagist. Yes. But now if you want to become a civil celebrant, you got to do like quite a long night school course and stuff nights. And I went, I won't do it anymore. I had to pay some money and get a certificate.

    Will 03:53
    You can't just do it. Like, do a webinar or something like that.

    Rod 03:57
    Max webinar. Yeah, no, apparently not. I'm disappointed but a buddy of mine do it. That's a good story. I don't know if he's done any weddings. But you can also do funerals. And I think funerals be fascinating.

    Will 04:09
    No, no, I look, weddings are fun. And the tolerance for people borfing is much higher than the tolerance for people borfing at a funeral I wouldn't both man I'll be so good. I guess you would but

    Rod 04:22
    Stories the stories at funerals are sometimes really interesting like you got some person you don't know anything about and suddenly your story about when you go good god who invented planes.

    Will 04:31
    Bring him back he sounds awesome.

    Rod 04:33
    Some guy worked at Kentucky Fried but it turns out

    Will 04:36
    Not to make jokes like that. Why'd he die? That's terrible.

    Sam Vilkins 04:41
    I'm sure that's covered in the night course.

    Rod 04:43
    It is.

    Will 04:44
    Sam and I are here for a night course. The back of the class you educate us on something that's not a funeral.

    Rod 04:51
    Oh no, this is not about death. This is about life sweet the fuels of life because you know there's a lot more urine than you might think

    Will 05:04
    that, indeed, is this all your fears come at once? No, I don't have fears. But except for this.

    Rod 05:10
    So the first time pregnancy tests about 3000 years ago, we're in ancient Egypt.

    Will 05:16
    So I assume that this is pregnancy tests a long time before it's showing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not like what do you see it kicking or before? Or periods have been missed? So yes, yeah.

    Rod 05:28
    So you've got an ancient Egyptian lady going? I had a bit of a party last night. I wonder if I've got the baby in me. Yeah, they had pregnancy tests back there. So the good at a piss on barley or wheat seeds. Okay. And if the drums is

    Sam Vilkins 05:41
    A distraction?

    Rod 05:42
    Yes. Keep doing this for a couple of weeks.

    Will 05:44
    Can you hit the target? Or, or maybe sort of scattered in amongst themselves? Can you get the barley out of the wheat?

    Rod 05:53
    I said, just the barley. I've never thought of it as a test of dexterity. That's awesome.

    Will 05:59
    You see, the pregnant women are much more dexterous, much more dexterous with their you're not confirmed. I don't know.

    Rod 06:07
    Listen, this is only line one of 112 pages to it, this is gonna be great. So if the grains germinated you had a positive result. So if you piss on wheat, and it grows, you've got a baby in you

    Sam Vilkins 06:17
    How quickly does wheat grow?

    Rod 06:21
    Just springs up before you look the way through and you just gave birth, they can also depending on which seeds germinated they could tell it was a boy or a girl. Nice. Alright. See people is already interesting.

    Will 06:36
    I just want to know here for confirmation. Does modern science confirm or disconfirm this story?

    Rod 06:43
    It's as if you can read through my piece of paper? Because apparently there is some modern studies that reckon they can correctly identify in 70 to 85% of pregnancies not so agenda, but at least

    Will 06:52
    what using the wheat seeds and serious 70 to 80% is own a little bit of chance. Yeah, a little bit.

    Rod 06:59
    It hints up. We have a mathematician in the house. She's nodding. Yeah, she's nodding. Yep. 80 is more than 50

    Will 07:06
    Yeah. I know that I know that people are either pregnant or not. But the chance of being pregnant is probably a fair bit lower than 5050

    Rod 07:16
    How pregnant are you?

    Will 07:18
    Listener if you happen to be of the state of pregnancy or semi pregnancy? Yeah, if you're if you're wondering if you're on the cusp get yourself some barley, barley or wheat?

    Rod 07:30
    Yeah, both both See what germinates and you know if it's a little boy girl

    Will 07:33
    We would dearly dearly love to know your results.

    Rod 07:39
    Yes, please publicise

    Will 07:41
    like the I'm just a researcher I just need to know if it if it's useful.

    Rod 07:45
    And basically, we still use wee to work out if people are pregnant now we just measure for hormones and so we've come a long way. And there's a whole story around pregnancy testing, which you know, I reckon it's gonna come back one day but not this episode. is so much more wee that we need to get into okay all right. Fair enough. You don't seem happy?

    Will 08:04
    No, I'm very happy. I've I have wondered long. Long, long long

    Rod 08:08
    those late nights when you go to the toilet with your prostate bulging going, I need to pee again. I wonder if this is good for anything else.

    Will 08:16
    I got an idea.

    Rod 08:17
    We can use this surely we can use it turns out you can. You can use it. Oh yeah. Other than from getting rid of? Yep. It's not just for evacuating. Okay. Writing and admins. No. Oh, I didn't get that one. Oh, well, that is use stop the recording. We're going to start to run that down. So in the olden days after Ancient Egypt, but before recently,

    Will 08:40
    historian this man is a historian.

    Rod 08:43
    Yeah, I got a degree. Not in history. Okay. Diagnosing and divining things

    Will 08:48
    I got divining. Yeah, yeah, diagnosing. I get that Yahweh comes out blue. Did you get a problem? That's a diagnosis of MS. It's called blue wee. Yeah, exactly. But divining is about finding water underground. Not only I don't think

    Sam Vilkins 09:06
    That'd be good to watch.

    Rod 09:08
    If I pee there must...

    Will 09:11
    There's a river underground there

    Rod 09:12
    Well there will be if you wee long enough. So apparently, it was a crucial diagnostic tool in medieval times. Medieval folks had a urine wheel, a urine wheel urine wheel, so you could diagnose disease based on the colour smell and taste of a person's wee

    Will 09:27
    Oh okay so it's not like a waterwheel where you've got to kind of get this thing spinning Yep, it's more just a chart that's a chart based on colour

    Rod 09:34
    Get up in muscle on up here and if you can spin the wheel faster you're probably okay

    Will 09:39
    So what you've gotta do is push the stream of the river

    Rod 09:41
    Coming here champ you missed out on taste interesting. Tastes came into it. So we'll had 20 colours ranging from quote, white as well water and moving into ruddy as pure intense gold and ending it. Black as very dark horn.How do you deliver that? Sorry, your urine is dark is very dark black is very wonderful. It does. The medievals did like their demons though.

    Will 10:12
    Generally it'd be looking like Satan's horns.

    Rod 10:15
    Black is the shit real it's terrible. You got poop coming out sort of we're analysing urine was the best way to determine whether a patient's four humours blood, yellow and black bile and plagued them.

    Will 10:26
    Flim Flam. So hang on through them again. There was the blood

    Rod 10:30
    blood, plague them phlegm. Yep, yellow and black bile

    Will 10:34
    yellow and black bile. Two types of bile.

    Rod 10:35
    Both sound disgusting to me, but apparently you need them in balance and I would agree I wouldn't want an imbalance of Biles so you could use your in for that. In late 1600s or an English physician called Thomas Willis describe the urine of a diabetic as quote wonderfully sweet as if it were imbued with honey and sugar.

    Will 10:51
    Oh my god, sir. You sir.

    Rod 10:55
    Have a delicious you're anxious you're you're fucking sick.

    Will 10:58
    I'm gonna need to be testing you regularly, please.

    Rod 11:01
    Actually, probably around breakfast. Because this bottle is terrible. So you noticed it on the wheel.

    Will 11:08
    It was all apothecaries or physicians are whatever they were back then did or just some of them like a long history

    Sam Vilkins 11:15
    There's a long histroy in medicine of you know, tasting just just giving things ago. That's true.

    Will 11:22
    But it's Yeah, okay.

    Rod 11:25
    Yeah. So, Willis Willis which I read his wheels to begin with because he coined the term Willis's disease, which has to do with diabetes mellitus. Say you've got my disease, you've got you've got the Will's sickness. But by the 16th and 17th centuries, the wheels have become so prolific because of the printing press. Damn you Gutenberg all sorts of people using them including unlicensed medical practitioners or quacks.

    Will 11:50
    So the wheels were getting everywhere Miss Gutenberg, they turned out Bibles and urine wheels.

    Sam Vilkins 11:57
    How do you misuse a colour chart?

    Rod 12:00
    Well, I'm glad you asked.

    Sam Vilkins 12:02
    What are you? What are you fucking up?

    Rod 12:06
    Your urines yellow, that's not yellow, fucking purple.

    Will 12:10
    You've not been trained in the colour chart. You see it takes a long time this sort of

    Rod 12:17
    ways but colours not so much a question. Yeah, no, no, no, literally,

    Sam Vilkins 12:20
    Only we can manage the colour wheel nobody else could possibly go to

    Will 12:25
    eight years trained long and hard before you can interpret these colours.

    Rod 12:30
    So the practice of Uroscopy which is using urine to analyse a patient's health soon morphed into Uromancy

    Will 12:44
    why didn't they keep it with the scientific version? Rather,

    Rod 12:48
    I can tell you whether your horse is going to win just piddle on my hands.

    Will 12:53
    I know they're going to use it for making spells but make your horse win.

    Rod 12:56
    Yes, maybe they did. I didn't get to that part. But then we get to the arrival under this romantic title of piss profits. Not my term surprising that that might say know exactly what they call piss profits. But

    Sam Vilkins 13:08
    are you pivoting to your next career step as a piss prophet?

    Rod 13:14
    I don't want interests

    Will 13:18
    All your science communication needs and piss prophecy

    Rod 13:20
    Piss prophecy. So they did pregnancy tests and divining the sense the sex of the Munchkin and that sort of thing. But also take omens from the urines colour and taste.

    Will 13:31
    Well, again, I don't think it's necessarily an omen if your wares coming out black. It's not a sort of mystical moment. It's you pretty sick here.

    Rod 13:39
    I think it's an omen that your job involves tasting people's piddle thought. That's an omen of get a new job it'd be horrible. Most commonly piss prophets read the bubbles seconds after divination. So you read the bubbles and the literal example of this.

    Will 13:56
    Doc know I've got to read your bubbles. Just get it straight into the pot. I got to read your bubble

    Rod 14:00
    Piss in my bowl. The presence of large bubbles spread far apart might signify the urinator was about to come into a lot of money. Or I'm gonna say from a great height.

    Will 14:10
    But you know large bubbles far apart Yeah, Come into great money.

    Rod 14:13
    Yep, give it a go. Now listen,

    Will 14:16
    Richard and don't take photographs of if you have large bubbles just let us know

    Rod 14:20
    No, no take photos. Put them on a awesomest sorry Hallstrom AF oopsie Facebook group. Conversely, the presence of small bubbles packed tightly together signified illness loss or the death of a loved one.

    Will 14:33
    Can you imagine that coming up or you've already already had the death? They're not clear.

    Sam Vilkins 14:36
    So is this being done...Paint a picture is this. Is this still a doctor's office? Are you walking into like Oracle at Delphi?

    Rod 14:45
    Yeah, I think I'm gonna go more down the quack end of town than the doctor end of town to tell ya, leeches in jars and bits of animals that have been dried and then re moistened for your consumption. I think that's how it worked. That's the doctors not this is not the freaks. But there are heaps of medicinal uses in Europe. I've got a couple of sources that are managed together because I just love them. Are you ready? What a great list. This made me so happy. So useful substances can be found in human as well as animal urine. human urine has strengthening and curative characteristics concerning many deficiencies.

    Will 15:19
    Yeah. Now this is from whatever the 16th and 17th century

    Rod 15:22
    so predominantly, we're looking around 1750 Okay, these sort of information from deep dark Europe, Germany. The Germans love weird fucking medicine. I mean, homoeopathy came from there.

    Will 15:36
    I don't think though unique at the time, I think, do you think the tremens are not unique? They can be as unique as they want. I'm just saying. There was probably a lot of people who had interesting ideas about medicine in 1750 or 750, or whatever.

    Rod 15:51
    I'm gonna give you some interesting ideas about medicine. Okay, give me one example a mixture of potato and sulphur powder mixed with heated old urine helps hair loss healthier. Now I read I would read that as Yeah, I'd make me lose my hair too, but they mean it helps you remediate hair loss. You should rub this mixture into the scalp. It can slow down the loss of hair. Bullshit. Let's try that one. Hell yeah. Nah I'm not bald yet. Eyes and ears as a bunch of eyes and ears. One can best heal injuries to the eyes with honey dissolved in the lightly boiled urine from young man. How often doc one should wash the eyes as often as possible with this fluid. You've walked around with cups of old young men boiled urine

    Will 16:31
    With honey and honey. Yeah, honey is gonna be gross enough as it is. I don't want honey in my eyes.

    Rod 16:36
    Yeah, that's my concern.

    Will 16:38
    Okay, yeah, it is.

    Rod 16:41
    You don't wash your ears with it with it. Warmed ah. And it's good against deafness noises and other most other ailments in the ears. The shit we could learn I mean big pharma they've sold they've fooled us wash your eyes with your own water and accused sore eyes and clears and strengthens the sight piece in your eyes. You don't need glasses Sam that's where I went wrong. I hate but I keep hitting my stomach. trembling hands and knees can be helped by washing and rubbing one's own warm urine into the skin directly after one has urinated. So you got trembling hands or knees...

    Will 17:17
    So this is not a heating things up scenario. This is just us it fresh.

    Rod 17:20
    I'm thinking fresh here. So can you pedal on your own knee or your own hands you probably can voice ladies I don't know we'll go into the the wheat and barley practice. Wash and rub your hands with it and it takes away numbness chaps and sores and makes the joints limber.

    Will 17:35
    But gross. Like limber limb takes away the soreness or maybe gross isn't mentioned. Yeah. Okay. I guess everything. Everything was gross back then. So

    Sam Vilkins 17:44
    everyone's living in filth.

    Rod 17:47
    Wash any green wounds with it and it is an extraordinary good thing.

    Will 17:52
    I just want to say green wounds. Yeah. Did you do something before they get to the green wounds?

    Rod 17:57
    When you get into sub curating I'm thinking sure piss on it. Why not? It's 1700s in your you've got to say what exactly it will do? No, no, but it's extraordinarily good. Wash any part that itches and it takes the itch away. Good for what ails you? One of my faves wash the fundament and it is good against piles and other sores. Where is your fundament? I always assume you know what a pile is? Somewhere. So piles for your youthful listeners, are haemorrhoids.

    Will 18:27
    No, I get that. So what's your butthole like we so that's your fundament so it's not further inside, like

    Rod 18:34
    it doesn't say how deep to go into says wash it doesn't say like an inch in or four inches, maybe it's just around the edge.

    Will 18:39
    That's a hard one to do with your own. The final one. That's a very tricky one like that one is kind of easier to get someone to help us.

    Rod 18:48
    I need I need a bit ahead. I don't want to make it weird use mine, the urine domain. But let's get real. All kinds of throat inflammation can be helped by gargling with urine to which a bit of saffron has been added.

    Will 19:02
    It takes the edge off takes the sting out of the flight

    Sam Vilkins 19:06
    Can you add herbs and..spices

    Rod 19:09
    Oh look it doesn't go into that. I don't think you want to diminish the fact of God's liquids. In the beginning stages of Dropsy which for those of you who want a love the name drops, he's got dropsy. I'd never knew what it meant

    Will 19:23
    Scottish disease Isn't this like it's a disease of the Scottish

    Rod 19:27
    now apparently it's a condition characterised by an excess of watery fluid collecting in the cavities or tissues of the body. You get water on the cavity Yeah, no

    Will 19:35
    I got cavity waters so we call it now they had a better name for it. We call it Edema

    Rod 19:41
    Eeerdema. Latin style demon. So in the beginning stages of this demon Dropsy one should drink one's own morning urine on an empty stomach for a prolonged period of time. This also helps against jaundice

    Will 19:54
    not your afternoon urine

    Sam Vilkins 19:55
    For a plural prolonged period in terms of yoga for hours.

    Will 19:59
    You're sipping it Come on. This is a sipping kind of thing and keep it

    Rod 20:03
    Do not forget to savour.

    Will 20:08
    You can't just gulp this medicine down like this is not get rid of it quickly because the taste

    Rod 20:14
    Every mouthful. Strain between the teeth. Like that a universal an excellent remedy for all distempers distempers inward and outward drink their own water in the morning, nine days together and cures scurvy.

    Will 20:27
    See this is the thing when you get these ancient old timey doctors who have gone okay, I've got a cure, and it remedies everything. They're not even being specific. Any Condition you've got come to me. I've got the magical treatment. It's it's your piddle.

    Rod 20:43
    What I like this one is scurvy. And it also makes the body lights and cheerful. So it doesn't want that somehow it replaces vitamin C. Yeah. And makes you just feel generally more buoyant. Maybe like you're in point eight gravity or something. I don't know. So you think That's old school?

    Will 21:02
    I do. Yeah.

    Rod 21:04
    Well, let me take you let me bring into the Word of the Week. That's Urophagia. The opening line from Wikipedia. I love this description. It's the consumption of urine. Urine was used in several ancient cultures for various health healing and cosmetic purposes. What the fuck cosmetic purposes. Urine drinking is still practised today and I'm going to confirm that in a moment

    Will 21:28
    Really, these beers have been spiked?

    Rod 21:31
    In this jar have under the table it's still practice today though there is no proven health benefit to it. Well, I don't think so mate in extreme cases people drink urine if no other potable fluid is available.

    Will 21:42
    Okay, I get that one that is about the most legit I think so tourism for

    Rod 21:45
    Numerous credible sources, including the US Army Field Manual advise against it. I don't need that manual to be advised against it. Look, if you're running out of water and there's you actually have some urine coming out...

    Will 21:53
    You've got your own. You know, good enough a Bear Grylls he drank it out of a dead snake. If there's if there's like two or three of you do you swap or do you use your own or do you pull friends recently medics to get this? I don't know the etiquette on this.

    Rod 22:12
    No neither do I. The definition of urophagia ends with urine is also consumed as a sexual activity. Okay,

    Will 22:19
    I know. Okay, fair enough.

    Rod 22:21
    We're not going to get into that. I'm just mentioning it because you know, it would be Miss Miss room remiss of me not to give listeners all the information you need very good of you. So let's go to my new favourite book.

    Will 22:33
    They wrote a whole book on this?

    Rod 22:34
    Oh, my God, the golden fountain, the complete guide to urine therapy. It was written in the 90s.

    Will 22:44
    You're in therapy.

    Sam Vilkins 22:46
    This isn't a smart business move. Usually when you hear about cure roles, it's because you own it and you're selling it. It's like a vitamin. Yeah. People have their own urine. Yes. You can't charge markup on that.

    Rod 22:58
    But cults make a lot of money. Alright.

    Will 23:01
    Just building on Sam's idea. Are there any entrepreneurs out there who have said no, it's not your own urine? It's got to be ours. My specialty. I have the magical I have the

    Sam Vilkins 23:10
    Surely some of the billionaires are one bad weekend away from this idea.

    Will 23:15
    Look, I kind of think that we're a couple of days away from celebrities selling their faeces you know the faecal transplant a lot a lot of legit science in that

    Sam Vilkins 23:23
    they're already selling blood of the youth.

    Will 23:26
    Yeah, they go. But you know a lot of these a lot of these faecal transplants, they actually change people's body shape, change their mental happiness and stuff like that. So like if I Brad Pitt's poo while he was somewhat happy, happy and good looking. He looks happy. I don't know if he is I think what Yes, I'm sure that's true. Okay, so nine, nine abs. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, guys go and try Brad Pitt's poo. And it might help.

    Rod 23:50
    next to the jar, I have another table. So this book, right The Golden Fountain was written by Coen van der Kroon.

    Will 24:01
    Okay,

    Rod 24:03
    it was hard to find a good biography.

    Sam Vilkins 24:04
    When was it written?

    Rod 24:05
    1994 was published first first published, there's more than one edition. Well, you got to update these things as new things come to head update these things. So finding his biography was tricky. So I found one on the Soul Institute homepage because, you know, I check it every week in cases updates. He was born in Utrecht in the Netherlands in 62. He has an academic background in Greek and Latin languages and culture. His MA thesis, much like mine was on Ancient Greek gynaecology, with a comparison between Hippocratic and Ayurvedic medicine. Okay. I mean, really, that's been done to death though. You know, it was a start. I was interested in the study Ayurveda. You know, that Indian medical stuff and he's a guest teacher de vida at Seoul Institute. He dedicated his life to understanding the Indian Health Science of Ayurveda. Okay. It has been his mission to clarify the ancient eastern advice for disease prevention and day to day health and well being so the implications can be understood by the modern West. didn't mind aka us. Okay. It also goes on to say he's making this happen through his writing for magazines and books, including an international bestseller, but they amusingly don't name that international bestseller on the site. And his teaching is centred around the Academy of Ayurvedic studies in the Netherlands which he founded in 2005. So that's the best biography I could find of him. He's got an MA in ancient gynaecology and Comparative Medicine he things so better though, get ready get comfy. The overview for the for the golden found the complete guide to urine therapy, get get a copy if you don't have one already, he probably do run urine therapy. The drinking and external application of one's own urine as a healing agent is an ancient Eastern tradition, which is gaining popularity in the West, should it though? Devotees who include the actress Sarah miles, claimed that it is the oldest of natural remedies and swear by its health enhancing properties. Yeah, I don't know who she is either.

    Sam Vilkins 25:56
    And is that the best name they could get?

    Rod 25:58
    Yeah, apparently. But in case you want to sell trophies, well, you could pay a celebrity know how much

    Will 26:03
    how much would you need to be paid for to endorse this? Like I get if the health benefits are awesome, maybe you don't need to be paid.

    Rod 26:10
    I'll do it for 100 bucks. Really? All in goes for 100 bucks.

    Will 26:13
    I will literally Here we go. I've got $100 that will go towards that.

    Rod 26:18
    My name is Dr. Robert Gryphon Lambert's and I endorse this product

    Sam Vilkins 26:22
    You've been doing it already. This is a sponsored episode.

    Will 26:25
    I'm gonna need some YouTube videos. I'm gonna need some tweets as well.

    Rod 26:28
    We're gonna get to the Sarah Miles. I mean, you may mock her but she was nominated for a Golden Globe. Okay, so her role in the sailor who fell from grace with the sea in 1976. So come on. Come on that Sarah

    Sam Vilkins 26:43
    more than me.

    Will 26:43
    Yeah, a lot more than me. Zero nominated zero Golden Globe nomination

    Rod 26:47
    She is apparently on the record in 2012 for saying she'd been drinking our own urine for over 30 years and she feels it improves her health in a variety of ways. So she's the endorsement as we have already decided discussed. Who the fuck is she?

    Will 26:58
    But nonce you once you're 25 years and you're not quitting then like it's you're in for the long haul. You've had it. You've had a few guys you keep going. Might as well see if these benefits do work.

    Rod 27:10
    What if you stop and they everything goes backwards. Suddenly your skin sags, brain falls out you can't walk anymore and then one of your eyes stops working. I mean, it's likely that would be because you stopped drinking the urine mixed with the young man's boiled honey on the honey with a bull urine. So the overview goes in goes on the venerable former Prime Minister of India. Moraji Desai who was 99 and an excellent health when the author met him in 94 was open about the fact that he drank a glass full of his own urine every day. How on earth Yeah.

    Will 27:44
    wineglass brandy snifter,

    Rod 27:47
    every image I've seen not of him but of others. They're not taking shots. They're having a good go of it like they're making sure they know the urines in them. It was while the author was in India that he was first given the opportunity to experience the therapies healing benefits firsthand, following an accident. Accident is unspecified. Okay, I assume he just peed himself and didn't know what else to

    Will 28:11
    That kind of access come before he had a toddler accident.

    Rod 28:14
    Hopefully you better drink this. Oh, I feel good.

    Will 28:16
    Got a list of list of other Prime Minister's or presidents who one would like to drink their own wee. He's got a certain golden countenance urine. Yeah, I think like it does look like he's been circulating the urea a little bit too much.

    Rod 28:35
    Definitely go into his brain. Apparently, the golden fountain is the most complete book to date on urine therapy. And it's a result of wide ranging investigations after this guy travelled the globe. Looking into the history of uses and efficacy of it. He tackles his subject with sensitivity and conviction you'll be relieved to know he provides a comprehensive overview of urine therapies history throughout the world together with detailed case histories and a user friendly guide to its practical application. How goods that. Swami ProGear Moti Saraswathi is a strong advocate of urine therapy he teaches in London and he's written and authority foreword to the book. Blah blah blah as an intriguing do it yourself home treatment you're in therapy is often the subject of lively debate. No shit. But there's one thing everyone agrees upon. It's absolutely free. Yes, yes. Very hard to argue with it. Never been charged for my own wee.

    Will 29:31
    I'm just loving the list of pros and cons of any medicine. Yeah, but this one, you know, you got pros and got like, free. So you might as well use it

    Rod 29:38
    gotta be good for you. I made it for free. So the foreword by Swami ProGear, Muti Saraswathi it's worth hearing a little bit about that. You're getting comfortable, I'm comfortable. When I was first asked to write the foreword to this book. I was delighted, delighted just to be asked and delighted to be able to contribute something to a subject which has been very dear to my heart and an important part of my life for some years. If you choose what's important to you...

    Will 30:01
    So they feel really laughed at. Are they really fine with that?

    Rod 30:06
    I can't tell. Wait till we get on to some social media.

    Sam Vilkins 30:11
    Do we know how many people are doing this?

    Rod 30:14
    409.

    Will 30:16
    That more than more than one. Yeah, see, because we've had about a couple here. Less than 7 billion. I'm just gonna say, Yeah, I think I think you're right. Because not me. I

    Sam Vilkins 30:27
    I say no.

    Will 30:29
    Me neither. I just put on the record.

    Rod 30:32
    I'm gonna run with look never even been tempted. In fact, have I thought about it? No.

    Will 30:38
    I have I have thought about my strategies for survival surviving in the desert. And so yes, other than that, yeah.

    Rod 30:46
    And mine includes taking water with me. Yeah, finding an oasis. I've seen what happens in

    Sam Vilkins 30:52
    Not being in the desert.

    Will 30:53
    There's that I'll use my way for divination in a divine way, way. I'll do that first.

    Rod 30:58
    So the Swami goes on, he sat down and read the manuscript of this book and realise it's the most it's probably the most complete book on your urine therapy to be published. Therefore, there was virtually nothing for me to add. And he goes on to be very complimentary about the painstaking research done by the author, which, anyway, he says, as a student and teacher of yoga, he first came across Ahmed Ali, which is the traditional technique used by ancient Yogi's of repurposing one's piddle

    Will 31:26
    technique techniques. Can I just say it's not just for drinking hated? Yeah, it doesn't sound very complicated. I get an expert No, no.

    Rod 31:36
    No, you see 30 minutes you're gonna be expert look there

    Will 31:39
    you put it on wrong country. See, if you've got a there's a special rubber

    Rod 31:42
    piece counterclockwise on the left and clockwise on the right and you pay attention, man, you need my

    Will 31:46
    You need my special applicator, you do what they should

    Rod 31:51
    You need a spray gun would work. But they also use it for spiritual purposes, not just curative. And I don't know how that happens either. So he says, yes. It's advised as Sudan as a spiritual practice and rather than therapy or a cure for various ailments. So apparently, first, it was spiritual. And I'm not saying it. But he goes on. I must confess my first flirtation with it was short and not very sweet. Just the word choice. Yeah. Allow your mind to bottle for a moment. Just roll around in it short, not very sweet. And off flirtation? Yeah, I'm gonna flirt with drinking a little bit in my way we, but about eight years ago, this was in 94, the subject reappeared. And I started again, this time without any doubts or hesitation, he's confident. And yes, it works. He goes on. I apply fresh air and all daily all over my skin. And I also drink two or three times a day. Who hasn't been through that?

    Will 32:42
    Are these people that leave the house or he's a Swami he teaches people enough, but I just wonder if you if you go to go to work and you have like a little glass on your desk, like in your in your shared office?

    Rod 32:53
    Why do you want to move away from Keith? He's drinking his piss. Right now. Calm down. You mentioned the HR meeting. But why can you pesky,

    Will 33:00
    but why? Why do you have a problem with Kiss? Keith's urine drink? Is his about you? Yeah, I think you've got the problem.

    Rod 33:07
    History being shamer fucking asshole, you kind of work here, you're, you're racist. I have also experimented with only taking a once a day and we're drinking the entire day supply according to my instinctive feelings about my needs. The first benefits I noticed concern my skin. When I'm actually hallucinate, you just think everything's awesome. It greatly increased my energy. That first winter I didn't get a single cold whereas in the past, I had spent months coughing and sniffing balls. This led me to think that the urine must be having a positive effect on my immune system. And I continued to experiment with my consumption of quote, The Golden nectar.

    Will 33:43
    Why do they need such horrible euphemisms? Like,

    Rod 33:47
    golden nectar by drinking your own urine thought by many to be disgusting? And if you're HIV positive, then lethal as well,

    Will 33:56
    oh, come on, calm down. You can't get HIV from yourself. Like, like you've got it. Like that's true.

    Rod 34:01
    It's not gonna take it away either.

    Will 34:03
    I get it. Well, maybe it might. I don't.

    Rod 34:06
    But some some claim it does.

    Will 34:08
    Okay. I've just gotta say that is not the number one reason I had thought for not drinking your own.

    Sam Vilkins 34:12
    Oh true. Then maybe maybe don't in the desert. Take everyone else's urine.

    Will 34:17
    God. Yeah, there you go.

    Rod 34:17
    Okay, fair enough. Andrew, look, these were simpler times, HIV was much scarier than it is now. Apparently, that about drinking your own urine a miraculous transformation takes place. I'm thinking throwing up for now. I'd be feeling miraculous to your attitude to yourself changes. You start to really care for yourself and to love yourself. Don't you want to love yourself Sam?

    Will 34:38
    Technically, it's guaranteed not

    Rod 34:40
    worth even have to buy anything. That the secret to loving yourself is in your hands.

    Will 34:45
    I really am surprised. I thought self loathing would have been the response. But anyway, it's true, isn't it?

    Rod 34:50
    What are you thinking?

    Will 34:52
    Well, look at look,

    Sam Vilkins 34:53
    I think I think you've got to be in a certain place of self confidence to be drinking your own pee?

    Will 34:58
    All of the people that you're talking have that self confidence, they seem pretty happy with themselves. So your sample here,

    Rod 35:04
    wait till we get to some social media. Okay, your confidence Holy fuck. Don't worry, we're not there yet. This is the first vital step towards self healing in the fullest sense of the term. I don't know what that means. But it sounds important. The practice of Mr. Ali will continue to spread through word of mouth and with the help of excellent books such as this. So I wish you a lot of pleasure and inspiration reading this book, I definitely got that. After all, there's no money to be made from these people who manufacture their own medication, particularly to the needs of

    Sam Vilkins 35:36
    That's why it's driving me mad. I'd love it. If at the end, it was oh, they're making money off it. That's fine.

    Rod 35:42
    The books selling well.

    Sam Vilkins 35:43
    They're crazy that they just want to make money. Otherwise, why are they all doing it?

    Will 35:47
    This is so much better, though, that they're actually weird. They're not on the tank.

    Rod 35:55
    And I do like the idea that oh, it's free. So we're not assholes about this. It's got to be real, because we're not charging. I'm not gonna charge you to drink your pee.

    Sam Vilkins 36:04
    Thank God,

    Rod 36:05
    I allow you to do this for free. In fact, I'll probably give you five bucks. I'll give you five bucks if you do it.

    Will 36:10
    But snake oil salesmen like the traditional snake oil salesmen selling oil and free Yeah, no, exactly. fake medicine. You know, they're profiting off people's paranoia and desire for all the facts, but they're making money off it. Whereas these people, they believe in it, and not making money so much. Celebrities

    Sam Vilkins 36:27
    Ae paying more and more money and they throw money at the problem of their skin and everything else. They get told all you can do at home for free.

    Rod 36:34
    Just like piss in a bowl and lap it up dude, you're gonna feel a ball, it's gonna

    Will 36:40
    It's gotta be some sort of catching receptacle. Like if it goes in the drink get it in the toilet, like if it goes in the toilet, then that's, that's going away from you, you've got to do a catching.

    Rod 36:51
    And I want to see the bubbles, I want to know if I'm gonna be rich or someone's died. You could do that in a bowl, kind of

    Will 36:57
    shot glass or ziplock bag or something like that for later.

    Rod 37:01
    recycle it. So some of the chapter headings I quite enjoyed getting the taste, Introduction to urine therapy, the water of life, the history of urine therapy in the West nectar of immortality, the history of urine therapy in the east, going with the flow, the application of urine therapy, and I'm going to get back to one small section called the first sip, because

    Will 37:25
    I get it, I get it. Look, they know that there's a little bit of a hurdle to get over here to convert someone. Yeah, I'm very aware quite a big hurdle.

    Rod 37:33
    They're very aware, the unnatural pharmacy, medical and scientific aspects of urine therapy. Now you can't see my air quotes at home. I read through some of the medical and scientific aspects of urine therapy and they definitely been written down. You're not saying peer reviewed here. Look peer reviewed a source of inspiration, personal experiences with urine therapy. Those are fun reading. So the introduction we all know that drinking urine is healthy and strengthening. So you guys knew that look, I'm

    Will 38:06
    starting talking to their community they're not they're not attempting to get people on the outside

    Rod 38:10
    here. I read that and I wasn't part of the community now you are yet most of us have forgotten I'm getting apparently most of us have forgotten that it's healthy and strengthening after all,

    Sam Vilkins 38:20
    they're trying to say that it's sort of ancient and natural. Yeah, what I think is more natural is you're going very far away from me. Yes. Expelled?

    Will 38:32
    you're just too modern like not in touch with the natural world

    Sam Vilkins 38:35
    common criticism.

    Rod 38:38
    And I gotta say, you know, as a as a longtime owner of dogs, I've seen them eat their own food, but I've never seen them run for the week. Like ever. I've never seen a dog in a week. Can I get a bit of

    Will 38:49
    They love a sniff though? Are they a lot of sneeze and they're sniffing is

    Rod 38:52
    Powerful though the divining the future until a lot about

    Will 38:56
    I mean that usually goes into a bush and it's kind of hard to eat way out of a bush like guaranteed I think in the in the fountain of the Golden fountain the name of your your biography

    Sam Vilkins 39:06
    Kind of possible.

    Will 39:09
    Chapter one in the instructions is don't don't wait into a bush really

    Sam Vilkins 39:12
    It's natural to get it back. I don't think dogs would be letting it all go and you

    Rod 39:17
    think we'd be wired differently to output would be closely input would more or less

    Sam Vilkins 39:20
    I'd probably feel less disgusteded by the concept

    Rod 39:23
    if you pay me your mouth look we differ on that. I don't want to stop you though. You should be or you can be

    Will 39:31
    you should write to evolution we need to get a new body design that's

    Rod 39:35
    Dear evolution I've of discovered a flaw in your system repeat too far from our mouths. did Darwin Darwin's ghost after all he

    Will 39:49
    goes on to be an animal that does though there's got to be some animal like the starfish or something like that. I'm gonna look that up later. Listener if you find it is a morsel so you know there is an immortal jellyfish. True maybe only one though. Yeah, well, no, there's, there's a species of immortal. It's not the same jellyfish? I don't know.

    Rod 40:08
    That goes that question.

    Will 40:10
    But I get this weird feeling that there are species that get rid of the waste products from the mouth area.

    Rod 40:17
    So you gotta have only one hole for everything it's efficient. Not good for foodies. No, not at all. But I don't think he's on he also shoots out of his mouth. When you get into taste this,

    Will 40:29
    I don't think there are good housekeeping magazines for these species. I don't think they want to total. Everything really nice, but we got rid of taste buds billions of years ago though they were terrible and Christ with a terrible idea.

    Rod 40:42
    So we've forgotten that urine is healthy and strengthening. After all, we have all done it for nine months.

    Will 40:49
    Now,

    Rod 40:51
    this is where I love the logic starts to start rolling really nicely before it is born. Every child floats in amniotic fluid, which consists primarily of urine from the foetus and stimulates our growth.

    Will 41:01
    I'm gonna just say here, I am not foetus scientist. I don't think that's true. But you could be I don't think that's true.

    Rod 41:08
    That amniotic fluid is basically wee wee I don't think it's true. You're going to run it

    Sam Vilkins 41:11
    Is it against the ethos of this podcast for me to check these backsliding,

    Will 41:14
    I think, because I would like to know this. But my belief is that the blood circulate circulates back into the mother. Surely it's not claimed by her kidneys. And I'm sort of

    Rod 41:23
    I'm look, I didn't sit down. In fact, check this because where's the fun in there? We'll get to some fact checking later. We drink this fluid. And then we urinate. Yes, we breathe it in. And in doing so our lungs grow and develop. It's the causation hang

    Will 41:36
    Hang on our lungs, we're breathing,

    Rod 41:39
    We're breathing our pee in the womb,

    Sam Vilkins 41:40
    amniotic fluid creates urine.

    Will 41:44
    That sounds for the mother not for you drink it. But

    Sam Vilkins 41:48
    The rest is very complicated. I don't understand anything.

    Rod 41:51
    25 minutes to read all of it. And then you just got to stop then I gotta catch up with what you're saying out loud. To me for great listening.

    Sam Vilkins 41:58
    Just says it creates your and that's what we've got. Good, good,

    Rod 42:01
    good to have you on research. We're drinking fluid and then we urinate we breathe it in and in doing so lungs grow and develop. We are born and suddenly we consider it to be dirty. And so we stopped

    Sam Vilkins 42:11
    There's a lot about living inside a womb that I wouldn't want to do now. Yeah.

    Will 42:18
    We kind of give that up like guaranteed.

    Rod 42:20
    What breathing air? I mean. Breathing liquid.

    Will 42:23
    Are there any of these advocates who aside from rubbing it into your skin your head and drinking it? Are there any people saying that we should breathe it into our lungs? Because

    Rod 42:33
    no I didn't find that but that'd be gotta be out there drowning in we sprayed a spritzy good for the alveoli.

    Will 42:42
    Oh my god.

    Rod 42:42
    That's part of the lungs mathematician. Oh, just in case you weren't sure. Did you do biological mathematicians? There you go. So that's inside the lungs and it's too hard. I get that biology because you got to remember it maths. You can work out I get it nevertheless. Why did we stop Nevertheless, I and many others have begun again. We get that? I start every day by drinking glass and morning urine.

    Sam Vilkins 43:05
    Maybe that's a mental thing knowing that they can't get worse.

    Rod 43:11
    Today already drunk piece gotten at the bottom here. It's gonna be fine. Because it is healthy is my answer to the regular people who asked why love the wording.

    Will 43:23
    I don't feel that asking them questions is actually going to get to the bottom of this and the haters.

    Rod 43:29
    reminds me you've seen dodgeball, you know, you haven't seen the movie dodgeball I have. So there's a coach in it called patches. Oh Hoolahan, who basically lines up these guys who are trying to get better at dodgeball with a big basket of wrenches of spanners and just Chuck's it at them. Okay, and they're all getting beaten to death by this thing. And something goes is that necessarily goes necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? No. But to do it anyway, because it's sterile and I liked the taste. So whenever I hear about necessarily in urine, I think a patch is over all the hand. Okay. Moving on, at first, most people think I'm joking. This is the author again. To be commitment to a joke, we've all been taught that you're in is dirty. How could you be healthy, let alone help cure illness? It's a good question,

    Will 44:07
    do they? Are they conspiracy theories that they're like, What is the reason we've been taught this data is

    Rod 44:14
    the next make sense? Well, not everything we have learned is based on the truth. Oh my God, here we go. Make you think urine is not dirty, categorically. In fact, we can safely drink it and rub it onto our skin. This assertion raises many questions true

    Sam Vilkins 44:28
    That's true of many things. Yes.

    Rod 44:31
    And it raises many questions and rightly so. I just did the whole principle in both sides, that our body is deliberately getting rid of something. Yeah. Yeah, I believe they are. It is we do. Urine also contains life. It's a liquid full of energy full of life. The fluid that supports and strengthens the lifeforce already present with regenerates lost lifeforce.

    Will 44:57
    I get down to lifeforce which is your I wouldn't say is a scientific concept less

    Rod 45:02
    Less you think he's a madmen? Yes. He goes on to say, however urine is not a miracle drug. It's not fucking crazy

    Sam Vilkins 45:08
    isn't one of these chapters called immortality? Yeah. Okay.

    Rod 45:12
    But no, he's covered in the introduction. So

    Will 45:14
    that was more metaphorical immortality and they're not really you know,

    Rod 45:17
    I don't think so. Too much here. He's still alive.

    Will 45:21
    He was the Prime Minister decided he lived in Northern Ireland that's quite a good innings. And it was the cause of pain and in fact, we don't know he had died at that point. He was just in an interview then so

    Rod 45:30
    exactly, he's probably still going now 25 years later, so he admits it's not a miracle drug as mentioned above health is also dependent upon other factors. nourishment, surroundings and emotional and mental hygiene.

    Will 45:41
    You've got to eat other food. Like don't forget to keep eating other food you'll be

    Rod 45:47
    know the list is basically as healthy is also dependent on everything other than piddle everything

    Sam Vilkins 45:52
    Are these people just drinking it, are they not only throwing it at the broth

    Rod 45:56
    in? I don't know about recipes. There isn't a section on that. But maybe the next edition,

    Will 46:00
    I'm guessing cooking, it probably takes some of the goodness out of cooking like this is a freshness definitely right. Yeah, they don't like it pasteurised, the raw urine movement pasteurise your urine the

    Rod 46:10
    freaks. So what does your team consists of? Now they work on the maths with me 95% of urine is water. Okay. 2% consists of urea and the remaining 2% is a mixture of mineral salts, hormones and enzymes. Yep. Got a problem there. I think the other 1% is little miracle. That's it to me to only urea, the substance after which urine is named can be poisonous when present in very large amounts in the blood. So nothing else can be poisonous. Okay, I'm gonna go out and on that one site bullshit. However, this is irrelevant in the practice of drinking urine so don't worry as urine is not immediately put back in the bloodstream. Okay champ in Is

    Will 46:52
    there a problem if you keep circling it around though? Like if the hell yes. Like like I think once off 100 per 50 per million percent is gonna be a little bit different from not drinking anything else and just gradually it becomes more runny.

    Rod 47:05
    Some training it like nuts. Yeah, not good. Really, really, really good. I mentioned really not good. In small amounts of urea gets back into the body. It is purifying cleaves off excess mucus and has a number of specific very useful effects, which will be discussed later in this book. What's mucous know what? If you've got maybe we're back to drops,

    Will 47:28
    snorting you gotta you gotta you got a runny nose, then your nose gets

    Rod 47:35
    when you say it out loud. You got the snots drink pee like, you're right. You're right. What? I feel so stupid now. Furthermore, urine is entirely styled after secretion. It has an antiseptic effect. We're gonna get onto that a bit later. The sterility thing. We are talking here about urine from the point of view of somebody who follows a reasonably healthy diet. One who does not use drugs or allopathic medicines, aka or modern stuff. Yeah, okay. So again, we're talking you know, humans really good for you if everything you do is already good for you. Plus, as I said, not using the medicines you're in therapy is a method based on the principle of inverted commas natural cycles, as long as we do not interfere chemically with the body's natural cycle the body produces urine, which is perfectly suitable for recycling. Okay, bullshit, because if you keep doing it as we just discussed, it will get concentrated to the point of being wildly poisonous. Do people have a good argument for why we are also not eating shit? No, but I would love to hear that if you want to get online and

    Sam Vilkins 48:32
    All of their arguments seem..

    Rod 48:34
    Why don't eat poo?

    Will 48:35
    I guarantee they have got very hard lines against those shit-eaters. Oh my god, they're so insane freaks.

    Rod 48:41
    Freaks the hell out mortality. Weirdos over there ain't no

    Will 48:47
    fountain in your poo

    Rod 48:50
    t's not easy. We though boom. It's natural fit nature's fact God's found. If you ingest a great deal of chemical substances, and these days all kinds of processed foods contain such substances. Part of this will end up in the urine in which case the composition of the urine changes. Normally however, normally, however, urine is a healthy substance which contains healthy harmless components. Yeah, bullshit. I'm not gonna read the whole book but I have to go back to the first sip. Because your first sip its first sip. This is like chapter four. Everyone remembers their first you never forget your first time. Oh, God. But I prefer I did before you decide to drink your first glass of urine. The one before any number of ways people can stay prepared. Any number of things can pass through your mind. This is not untrue. So far, he's got me entirely on point. We're all familiar with the taboos surrounding P surrounding pee. Pee in inverted commas. He's trying to talk like the kids talk, which are often more deeply rooted than we think. No, it's not more deeply rooted than I think I know that deeply rooted. Okay, yeah. I can't be in the ocean like I try right Hey, I want to do a pee but it's like what I'm wearing pants. Are you serious company in the ocean? Yes, I'm weird. I should be able to I hate myself. Muscle drink my point in the ocean is asking for a great

    Will 50:11
    like this big sign at the door that says, Look, we're all here.

    Rod 50:14
    I was at the beach a couple of weeks ago and I'm in the water going I really need to go to the bathroom. Surely this could be my day.

    Will 50:19
    I had a friend once. Oh my god, we were at the beach and wherever. And obviously people when they're in the water a lot of people do nine tenths of a penny he get out of the water. We're all out of the water and we're chatting later. And then this is running down his leg.

    Rod 50:34
    There's a whole ocean behind you do now we're not friends anymore. We got to get him on a follow up episode. So standing around talking to people a piece of Daniel legais. Even though you may fully acknowledge that drinking urine might be good for your health, and I don't perhaps you cannot bring yourself to take that first step but that's true. Do not force yourself into anything close to a Buzzfeed quiz. Oh, well, why not you can turn into one

    Will 51:05
    nine emotions you feel before you drink your your own weight

    Rod 51:08
    and all of them are discussed. Do not force yourself into anything. Be kind to yourself and give your body and feelings time to adjust to the idea and the practice is this

    Will 51:18
    like you have the glass of water but sit closer to it for a while just sleep sleep gradually. Yeah,

    Rod 51:25
    warm it call it work. Play with it. Like make it make it make it normal. Run it through your fingers might be decorated. Add some things make it normal. While appalling you're in therapy, listen closely to your bodies and fit your body and feelings. How many people do you know who have drunk enough urine to know what it tastes like? 00 Also, I

    Sam Vilkins 51:45
    so hope it's zero.

    Rod 51:47
    Yeah, let's have a quick listen

    Will 51:49
    to Paul listener if you can set up an anonymous Twitter account to dive in your friends, or just open your friends.

    Rod 51:57
    This is a great argument how many people do you know who have drunk it enough to wreck to know what it tastes like? Probably not too many. Then it goes on those people who drink it regularly say they own urine or sorry those who regularly drink their own urine say it. Now the next page was missing.

    Will 52:17
    Someone ripped it out. They're like this is the secret.

    Rod 52:19
    Now I got I'll be honest, I got like a free PDF online. I couldn't order the book in time otherwise I would have and I'm like those people those who regularly drink their own urine say it 46 page 48 will never know taste like mangoes to taste that doesn't say taste

    Will 52:36
    like my no like more like

    Rod 52:37
    mangoes. Like having a mango in your mouth. I love that it was missing that I was like oh, I just told myself I didn't even know I was gonna do it. So it is the it's the government's why people so grossed out. Beatrice Barnett presents us with some points to think about as far as aversion to urine is concerned. These dumb points I'm just going to spoiler alert. Throughout the civilised world blood and blood products are used in the medical world without evoking repugnance associated with urine. True Yes,

    Sam Vilkins 53:05
    I'm not spouting out. Like

    Will 53:07
    no. Yeah, and you don't you don't go drinking blood and you don't go recommending drinking blood every start every morning with a cup of your own blood cut my own blood the morning what's the best blood?

    Rod 53:18
    We often use pre pack cells plasma white blood cells and countless other blood components. Again, true. Urine is nothing other than a blood product. No urine is a urine product. If she means they both come out of the body. She's right she is there. She did not say that though. We see babies being breastfed and we are not filled with repugnant Okay, all right. We drink cow's milk and cheese from cows goats and other animals without a second thought bodies produce a lot of things doesn't mean you should eat them your wax

    Will 53:47
    yeah fingernails. Are there any fingernail advocates God I hope so.

    Rod 53:51
    Here it is. Let me finish is gonna beg here I just want to finish it. Read dairy products in the form of blue cheese malted or a salad drinks such as yoghurt and buttermilk. Not to mention all the other bizarre things which are considered to be delicacies

    Will 54:04
    oh my god things are strange

    Sam Vilkins 54:06
    so the things that delicacies Yeah, I'm not rolling them into my skin

    Rod 54:13
    yet we cannot imagine drinking urine I yes she's not wrong. All these things are true we do these things. As we as already discussed fresh urine simply contains the same substances as those found in blood. No it doesn't Beatrice just another she's listening what at one moment can be excreted as your urine was part of your blood just minutes before and fluid elsewhere through your body possibly through your tongue

    Sam Vilkins 54:35
    God I hope you get people replying to this very very angry at how they've been represented

    Rod 54:41
    bring it on yeah angry pissed drink because I'm ready

    Will 54:43
    no no no no, we're happy history in the in the spirit of holding out a hand I would love to have a chat.

    Rod 54:49
    Yes. So would I. But not a fight. No,

    Sam Vilkins 54:52
    Yeah they're gonna be stronger and agile

    Rod 54:56
    skin would just be perfect. If it is not poisonous or repugnant while in the blood. Why is it So suddenly repulsive is here, and what's the history of reasoning? So the last bit from this book, I just want to help you with a few tips. After a meal went for at least an hour before drinking any urine just like going off to swimming after a meal, wait for an hour before drinking your piss or going for a swim

    Will 55:18
    freshens up or gets the nutrients in it.

    Rod 55:21
    I don't know. That until you Why not another point, a high level of hormonal discharge takes place at night when the body completely relaxes and restores itself. morning urine is therefore the most rich in vital substances. No extra diet restrictions apply if you drink one glass of morning urine per day. But a diet low in salt, and especially animal protein is preferable and it will assure that your urine tastes and smells milder. No, that's not a bad thing. I'd rather it tastes and smells as mild as possible. If I was going to

    Will 55:53
    I thought that our advocates for the taste I thought they said it was great.

    Sam Vilkins 55:56
    Yeah, so they're admitting that it's a difficult, awful thing to do.

    Rod 55:59
    Yeah, look, they're pretty, they're pretty open about saying this could confront you, or your

    Sam Vilkins 56:02
    Your body's gonna hate it, you're gonna read to the thought of it. But hear me out.

    Rod 56:07
    If you drink however, if you drink of urine several times a day, a diet low in protein and salt is essential. A lot of fresh fruit and vegetables are recommended, except of course, when you are fasting on just urine and water. Yeah.

    Will 56:19
    That happens honestly,

    Rod 56:20
    I would never eat a lot when I'm fasting and just you're in the water. And that method will be discussed later in the influence of food.

    Will 56:27
    Alright, be healthy, otherwise, yeah. A lot of vegetables. And then we'll just claim the benefits are all about the wee drink. And

    Rod 56:35
    so this book is like a few 100 pages long. There's a lot going on in this book. And it's recent and it's being updated. It's available at Book Depository like today. I looked it up before we started recording. It's out there. And it's getting more popular. So there's a BBC report last year Kaley Oakley is a 33 year old yoga teacher from Newington Kent. She claims drinking your own urine has given her relief from a number of long term health issues including the autoimmune disorder Hashimotos thyroid disease and chronic pain condition fibromyalgia

    Sam Vilkins 57:06
    Usually this is paired with buy my book and my special drugs and follow the Instagram and a whole suite of these people are idiots

    Rod 57:14
    we got some we got a Twitter photo let me just read this before I show you an action shot I heard that urine she says can reset the immune system promote general good health and is good for the skin. So I thought I'd give it a go. What is reset the immune system.

    Sam Vilkins 57:30
    I don't want to reset mine it's learnt a lot.

    Will 57:34
    Go back to square one where you've got no antibodies.

    Sam Vilkins 57:37
    That's good for you never seen a flu before?

    Rod 57:41
    I suppose if you've got auto immune system issues the idea of cleansing it sounds really good until you think it though.

    Will 57:46
    I'm sure the idea of cleansing things always sounds good. And to be

    Rod 57:49
    clear though drinking pee does not reset your immune system you still have a lot of the stuff that's left before Yes. And so she gave it a go not only does she drink a jar of fresh wee every day

    Sam Vilkins 58:00
    Why did it have to be a job because she's a hipster?

    Will 58:02
    Oh I couldn't be it's an amazing job. I couldn't possibly be interested. You want to see a photo or Tumblr or or a protein shake bowl?

    Rod 58:10
    There's Kaley having a little drinky?

    Will 58:14
    Well, it certainly is a job. What's it what's a Twitter account? Yoga is sexy

    Rod 58:19
    sexy, unless that someone tweeting about her I'm not sure on that.

    Will 58:22
    I get that is that is someone tweeting about her? Okay, I like that it's got P capitalised. Yeah.

    Rod 58:29
    Donald Trump style respect. Isn't it lovely though. It's like it gets you gets the juices flowing, I think. And look Kelly is glowing. She also uses cotton water debit all over her face. When she came to claims keeps her skin glowing. Now I think that's called being shiny. If your face is wet, it does shine. But it doesn't have to be pee. Anyway, Kaylee thinks it's great. She's got what looks like a flat stomach and a huge jar of pee in her hand. So yeah, we can we can pop this image up now and that's not it. I think we can definitely retweet that one. September 2018. Lea Samsung, a 46 year old woman from Alberta, Canada told The Sun the UK Sun newspaper that drinking her own urine helped her lose half their body weight did

    Sam Vilkins 59:13
    Did the sun ask?

    Will 59:14
    I don't know. It's just a letter to the editor. Dear editor.

    Rod 59:18
    I was fat and it helped to lose half of body weight. Oregon if I had a jar of PS I'd lose a fair bit of my body weight just from throwing up No. Lee said that she weighed that weighing almost 120 kilos left her desperate for a fix.

    Will 59:34
    Okay, but there are other solutions.

    Sam Vilkins 59:37
    Oh any exhibit that she was getting this takes away from

    Rod 59:41
    the need to pay for an hour. Can you help me out? We got Ken Lee. I love it's the same like I'm obsessed with watching these really huge fat people shows you other people my 600 pound life and stuff. And the number of times they turn up at the surgeon's office is going to literally gastric band them and then eventually cut out Have kilos of flesh?

    Will 1:00:01
    Yeah, if they lose the one that to me is quite desperate for a solution, but at least it's an actual solution.

    Rod 1:00:06
    They say, I'll do anything and you're like, drink your own way. Yeah, I don't think that's anything surgery is not all do anything so she wanted to lose weight. I love that she was desperate to be to fix this weight problem. So she led her to wonder whether you're in could help. It's the obvious next.

    Will 1:00:22
    I was sitting there one day and I banged my head

    Rod 1:00:24
    feeling a bit fat. I think I might drink pee. My friend sent me a YouTube video of a link of urine therapy. She said, I stood up in the bathtub urinated into my hands and drank it. She's a woman of action

    Will 1:00:36
    Get a glass. I made a choice straightaway.

    Rod 1:00:39
    Yeah. It's dangerous to jump up in the bath too.

    Will 1:00:43
    Why is she in the bathtub if she's

    Rod 1:00:46
    worrying? I don't know. I noticed immediately that I ingested too much sodium and vowed to begin removing sodium from my diet immediately.

    Will 1:00:53
    That's the problem.

    Sam Vilkins 1:00:55
    All the way back to diagnosis and divining

    Rod 1:00:57
    issues got a salty way she is with a pouring some urine into a shot glass and also brushing her teeth, which she also does with urine.

    Sam Vilkins 1:01:06
    I don't think the teeth need that. The skin can probably handle a lot. I don't think

    Rod 1:01:14
    Oh look Sam, I just think you're being overly cynical. Have you have you tried gargling piddle a little bit of saffron. But of course me up I know it doesn't look good. Doesn't look inviting. When she's got a mouthful.

    Sam Vilkins 1:01:30
    She rinses her eyes with it. Now the word rinse rinse really all? All the way?

    Rod 1:01:37
    Yeah, yeah, I'm guessing she really holds them open and make sure that we get through it. It helps

    Sam Vilkins 1:01:41
    I don't know what it would do to my contact lenses.

    Rod 1:01:44
    They're probably slip off and want to carry them a little. So of course, the story has to go on with someone who's going to take it to the extreme of God. And the quote is, of course, you may remember that in June and I don't. June of last year this is 2018 An unnamed woman went viral on Facebook after she posted a video of herself drinking her dog's urine in it, no. Can we just in it. She takes a dog for a walk in the park waits until he has to go and then clicks it filming. There wasn't me. approaching someone from the sun clicks in his way in a cup. Then on camera she drinks it.

    Will 1:02:22
    Hang on she chose the camera or is this like a surreptitious someone is?

    Rod 1:02:26
    I don't know. I don't know. I mean, apparently we'd all remember that it went viral on Facebook, you're on the Facebook. I mean, it was over

    Sam Vilkins 1:02:32
    I'm not that on Facebook.

    Rod 1:02:37
    and the quote until I first drank my dog's pee, which is a great way to start any quote that before years. Anything you could say after that really until I was depressed, I was sad and I had bad acne. The woman says after finishing it to the last drop.

    Will 1:02:51
    Well, you might as well finish the last drop. I don't know what was gonna drink half a glass and just leave it there.

    Rod 1:02:56
    Before I drink my dog's pee. I was depressed. I was sad and I had bad acne and what I think it goes on to say afterwards I became a homicidal maniac with my limbs

    Sam Vilkins 1:03:05
    Afterwards nothing compared to the deep shame

    Rod 1:03:09
    and self loathing I left on social media and no one's seen her since.

    Will 1:03:13
    She's bringing a cup with her to catch it while she goes.

    Rod 1:03:17
    I mean, that's what we had enough. You're walking through a park and there's someone under the dog.

    Sam Vilkins 1:03:21
    What about your dog? Screams health? I don't know. I can sort of see where people are going in that like all human with liquids. Like it's fine. It's natural.

    Will 1:03:33
    I'm doing some recycling here.

    Rod 1:03:35
    It's good for the planet. Your own dog. Yeah, or anyone's dog. I think dog ownerships the issue of protein. Sure, yeah. But you know,

    Sam Vilkins 1:03:46
    Dog's eat grass.

    Rod 1:03:50
    Well, that's, that's that's not a lifestyle. I've watched that line. Please stop doing that. Don't say please to me, it's freakin delicious. So what does science say about urophagia? I actually, I read an article. Yeah, we got science. I told you we get science. I read an article from the American Journal of nephrology on the medical uses of urine from 1999 Australian if the guy's from Austria, he's from the Uni Vienna. And he's there's a couple of quotes here. I'm confused by this guy. oral intake of freshly voided morning morning urine has been recommended for many diseases such as viral bacterial infections. symptoms reported during the first days of oral intake of urine include nausea, vomiting, headache, palpitations, diarrhoea or fever. It's giving me a headache. That's That's what worries me most not the chundering fever and diarrhoea.

    Will 1:04:41
    I get those. Just I don't know. But I mean, I understand why Nausea is there. I just mean to giving you a headache,

    Sam Vilkins 1:04:50
    I'm assuming it's because they've become immediately so enthralled that they stop drinking water maybe

    Will 1:04:55
    that's it.

    Rod 1:04:57
    I've never seen anyone recommend that several substances in urine believed to be important for oral intake such as urea uric acid, cytokines, hormones, or Urokinase. Local urine therapies include imprecations, which is basically liquid robbing yourself compresses for local tumours, whole body bath got whole body.

    Will 1:05:17
    Gonna need the neighbourhood for that one.

    Rod 1:05:20
    God along the way, I didn't talk about this, but reading people doing tests on pregnancy trying to test pregnancy stuff and they needed to test their processes and they need a lot of urine and they ended up sourcing litres of the ship from a local nunnery. So you can imagine going into the nunnery and getting your 20 litres of urine every week to do your science.

    Will 1:05:37
    See they're selling it damn right there.

    Sam Vilkins 1:05:39
    They're smart.

    Rod 1:05:41
    The nuns aren't dumb, real jobs are gonna make money somehow. Whole body bath footbath in the urine use of urine as eye drops, your drops or nose drops and the use of urine for wound cleaning dropped drops in dummy up right just can't get into you're gonna be subltle with that shit up. He goes on to scroll through heaps of urine consumption practices like it's quite short article, but it's chock full of them. And he seems to be kind of benignly if not favourably disposed it's a little hard to tell documenting here his knees not. Yeah, and people are using it for this. I'm not here to do that. This is like this happens. So who kind of say things like some people with daily oral intake of urine also believe that urine contains natural antibodies and inhibitors against HIV and AIDS patients? Full stop. In the absence of this good quote, in the absence of any symptoms and diseases, the daily oral intake of one's freshly voided urine should prevent several diseases, such as certain viral infections, or really what? Wow, yeah, in the absence of anything, it could blow it should. The theory behind this therapeutic concept is that shortly after an unrecognised infection during the incubation period, undetermined, but specific defending substances may be produced and would, at least in part, be excreted via the urine. Milder causes of the disease can be expected according to this theory due to reinjection of defending substances present in the urine. I think that means it's like vaccination, but I don't know if I found that or is

    Will 1:07:10
    it or is it you? You're you're fighting off a disease and some of your disease fighting off stuff goes out your wee? Yeah, but you're recycling it. So you're bringing it back, and that's good. Troops can't escape. You've got to get back into the body.

    Rod 1:07:22
    Yeah, maybe I found it all very confusing. And the end the end is great, or the abrupt ending a clear cut conclusion for the oral intake of urine comes from the fact that every foetus drinks urine in the amniotic fluid during pregnancy, therefore, it cannot do any harm. That's how the article ends. This is a science article, American Journal of Nephrology 20 years ago now. All the signs in general urination is one way our body gets rid of toxic byproducts. They say this is more recent. It's a common belief that urine is sterile, which it would be but that depends on the cleanliness of your renal tract. Great. So in your

    Will 1:08:02
    advice in the in the golden fountain is to clean yourself a little

    Rod 1:08:05
    bit, you got to basically get in there with a pipe cleaner and go right up to the bladder. Yeah. Because yeah, so eating itself is sterile, except everything it touches probably isn't on the way out even barely at once. So once it leaves the body and as it leaves, it can get bacteria and all kinds of crap. There's no evidence according to doctors more recently at all that ingesting such substances has any health benefits. Drinking a small amount of urine is unlikely to be hazardous to your health. But there's not enough modern evidence as to its efficacy to suggest that it's drinking this healthy

    Will 1:08:34
    I feel this is a sad indictment on our modern medical research industry that listen hasn't been properly examined. It

    Sam Vilkins 1:08:40
    It would have to be pretty good. For me to start...

    Rod 1:08:44
    Start drinking it yeah, I've made the immortality chapter would have to be very convincing.

    Will 1:08:48
    I think I'd also need some some advice from some legit scientists, not just people writing books on Instagram and nutritionists and dietitians are coming out against it. I don't want to be first.

    Rod 1:08:59
    I don't want to be the early adopter on this. And the concentration issue is the same.

    Will 1:09:03
    I really do feel I could also be the last adopter layer if everyone else has taken up drinking their own wee. I'm sort of emperor's new clothes here I'm like let's go and have

    Rod 1:09:12
    done what do you feel around at a meeting at work drinking? We unscrew our jars 10 of us and you. and I'm like not much water because that's good for you.

    Sam Vilkins 1:09:23
    Pee's clear

    Will 1:09:25
    Are there any any workplaces that must be workplaces where everyone sits around drinking there

    Rod 1:09:29
    are goods that I really want to go to one of those What are y'all doing while you're on screen? What What's that smell?

    Will 1:09:36
    How do we bring in the new guy every time there's a new

    Rod 1:09:39
    Listen listen that

    Will 1:09:40
    is really good Aaron turn just your social media uses great you're doing some great stuff on Photoshop there but one other thing we've noticed you're not drinking your own wee like you're gonna make a big deal we don't we don't wanna we just we've noticed so people people are

    Rod 1:09:55
    not a drop of urine his past your lips since you've been here

    Will 1:09:58
    so we know the first sip is a little tricky. But

    Rod 1:10:01
    if you want if you make it easy you could try one of us first because I know pissing in jars and bowls can I've already got

    Will 1:10:07
    something here yeah it's right here it's warm you don't need to go and do it it's just an hour ago

    Rod 1:10:11
    brews it's fresh Tiki fingery when he's tasted on the tip of your finger but there's other stuff moving away from drinking I mean years over years have been used for softening leather which is great so the Romans used it a lot. You can fashion and makeshift gas mask. By apparently World War Two soldiers would sometimes piss on clothing or bits of devices. You can cool your machine gun. If your machine guns, hey, they're doing what he's doing. I'm calling the machine gun.

    Will 1:10:40
    I wear any military metals like the Victoria Cross or anything given out for someone whose machine gun was running,

    Rod 1:10:46
    running up and down the line of machine guns days overheating this guy. Get them all cool 44 machine guns. Early Vickers World War one machine guns needed to be they needed a quote water jacket to keep them cool to operate continuously. And so when you ran out of water soldiers would basically piss on the guns. You can fuel generators, a bunch of teenage girls in Nigeria have created an electric generator. And it runs using urine for fuel one litre of urine six hours of electricity, right that's, that's about it. It's not all about eating it and weird. Like I'll take that. And we get to my last two favourites urine socks to generate power. Urine saw Oh hell yeah. 2015 UK researchers developed a pair of socks embedded with microbial fuel cells MFCs and filled with urine pumped by the wearer's footsteps. They're cool looking. I don't have a picture here. But they're funny. The device is the most efficient you would be this is the this part of the problem. I think the marketing is going to be tricky. It's apparently at the time the first self sufficient microbial fuel cell system powered by the wearable generator. So it offers a way to convert natural human waste into a practical power source.

    Will 1:11:57
    I know that we need to change our fuel sources with climate change people socks, I don't know if it's worth it. Like Like, I'm not down with the

    Rod 1:12:05
    No, no, no, no, you're not you're under estimating its abilities. It currently can generate a Wi Fi signal. Not drive a car. Wi Fi signal

    Will 1:12:15
    To your week sock. I'm not sure about this intervention. I don't know why.

    Rod 1:12:22
    My mind boggles the signals will be bad and let me walk around

    Will 1:12:27
    way in my shoes and you're gonna have a pump.

    Rod 1:12:29
    It's kind of like you know, Dune Still Suits only way grosser and far less useful

    Will 1:12:33
    during there on a planet with no water. So literally, literally no water.

    Rod 1:12:37
    Finally, my favourite thing on this lying line, you want to be a better liar.

    Sam Vilkins 1:12:45
    I have to

    Rod 1:12:47
    I don't want to be a better liar. Sometimes you might need to be man, even white lies or you know to get the job. I mean, you lied into this job and that worked fine. So. So researchers at California State uni had 22 students fill out questionnaires about their stances on moral and social issues. Then they're broken into two groups. One half of the volunteers were asked to drink 700 mils of water. Now, as an aside, the average human bladder holds between three and 500 mils. Regardless of the size of the human, it's apparently quite adult, three to 500 mils. So there is a drink 700 and the other mob Ross the other half drank 50 mils, okay. Or in America, and who the fuck knows its metric, you'll get there one day. Then they were told this is unrelated to the study, just drink the liquids, and they didn't see each other who drink what, 45 minutes later. So just time to get that really, you're starting to get a bit Bustan a little bit. Participants are asked to lie about the beliefs they stated earlier moral and social issues. And the third party, watch them to see how convincing they were. And the people who drank more water were judged to be overwhelmingly more convincing.

    Will 1:13:51
    So when you're busting, you're more, you're more convincing as

    Sam Vilkins 1:13:54
    You're just lying to get out of it.

    Rod 1:13:56
    No, they call it. It's called the inhibitory spillover effect. I'll go to the spillover. So basically, researchers think that if you're if you're full up, it leads you to focus more on not only on bladder control, but other forms of impulse control. Because apparently they're all in the same part of the brain. We see them differently. You become Yoda. You just need control mode in general. Yeah. I always remember

    Will 1:14:21
    David Cameron massively failed politician obviously. Noted failure, you notice noted worst Prime Minister England has had in a very long time, but he always made sure that he was busting before he did a major speech to help him be more convincing.

    Rod 1:14:38
    And it seems to have been borne out by at least one study. I don't want to do that. No, neither do I. But I'm going to close on an endorsement from the golden film. The chapter at the end with endorsements is extremely long, and there are a lot of people claiming cancer aids, HIV and it was mid 90s. So we weren't, you know, popping a pill and so forth. This is an Having to do with Atlas. This is Miss LT from the Netherlands. In the initial phase of drinking, perhaps the most remarkable effect of urine was on my moods. Drinking my own urine helped me break down barriers I never thought I could and gave me a delightful feeling of inner freedom. It was something like quote, If I can do this, I can do almost anything like go to Australia or whatever. That feeling has remained. That feeling of freedom has remained so mistletoe from the Netherlands come to Australia. Come talk to us. Guarantee. I

    Will 1:15:37
    I'll bet you do feel more more free.

    Sam Vilkins 1:15:38
    Like I said, starting the day with it. Yep. Yeah, nothing.

    Will 1:15:44
    Smash a big social taboo. Sure. You'll feel more free.

    Rod 1:15:47
    Oh, it's fucking horrible. So that's drinking pee. Sorry, uses uses of urine. And you were worried it wouldn't be sciency

    Will 1:15:55
    Oh, I was. There was a lot of science in that there was.

    Rod 1:15:59
    There's a lot of gross as well. Gross Science Science can be gross.

    Will 1:16:02
    I just gotta say you haven't convinced me.

    Rod 1:16:05
    No, and I wasn't trying to Sam's Sam's got a bolt off to the bathroom now. I gotta stand up convinced No, no. And look.

    Sam Vilkins 1:16:16
    The best they had was that it might not cause harm

    Rod 1:16:21
    But the spiritual awakening breaking down of barriers you could even go to Australia that's how free you could feel.

    Will 1:16:26
    I don't mind feeling more free but there's there's other ways to feel more free drink your pee. It's not the best way like...

    Rod 1:16:34
    No I really don't think it is I think some other ways and by that I mean four and a half billion other ways are probably preferable. But look I don't mean to urine drink shame. If you're into drinking your way. I'd love to hear from you.

    Will 1:16:47
    Yes listener we deeply apologise for laughing at what is obviously a practice serious serious practice. Well, it is a practice and and Will deeply apologises. I deeply apologise I just I recognise I recognise that we are performing the role of most of society and marginalising you and if you would like to

    Sam Vilkins 1:17:08
    It's not causing harm as far as we can tell

    Will 1:17:11
    there you go. Sam is a bridge builder so if if if you would like to reach out and build more bridges with us we good we remain open

    Rod 1:17:19
    this if you want to drink up the awesome show salutes you please don't expect us to do it with you or at all.

    Will 1:17:27
    We do salute you somehow that

    Rod 1:17:30
    We salute the piss drinkers the risk takers all maniacs out there listening in all Napa that I know isn't it, isn't it?

    Will 1:17:38
    The wholesome show is well, I'm Will Grant

    Rod 1:17:44
    I'm drinking a beer generating my new health product.

    Sam Vilkins 1:17:45
    I'm Sam Vilkins.

    Will 1:17:51
    brought to you but I'm not sure they want to today. Brian, the Australian National Centre for the public awareness of science. Look, as Sam said, doesn't actively harm. There's a life lesson for everyone. It might be good. We'll see you next week listener.

Brianna Ansaldo
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