Our soft, human brains have been bested by 2022 so we are taking a quick break over the Christmas period and will be back assaulting your senses in Jan 2023. But because we don't want your ears to go unentertained, we're digging back into the archives for eps that have made us squirm, think or vomit (or hopefully, all three!). Today, we're re-living the horrors of Easter Island.
Easter Island is about as tiny and remote as you can get on the surface of our planet. It’s just 23 kilometres long (on its longest side), and as close as you can get to the Oceanic Pole of Inaccessibility. So you’d be forgiven if you’ve never heard of it.
But of course, you have.
You’ve heard of Easter Island - or Rapa Nui, as it is known to locals and should be known to everyone - because soon after it was settled by intrepid Polynesian explorers around the 12th century, the new inhabitants took up a fascinating cultural practice of carving and erecting thousands of Moai, or giant stone heads, along the circumference of the island. They brought the inhabitants spiritual protection and later, pop culture fame.
But you’ve probably also heard of Easter Island because sometime after the locals began erecting these thousands of Moai, the population - and culture - of the island collapsed. From a fertile paradise with perhaps ten thousand happy, farming, statue-building inhabitants, by the 20th century, there were barely a few hundred islanders, and the island itself was an arid relic of what once was. Archaeological expeditions described it as an exhausted terrain. The Moai were abandoned.
But what was to blame for such destruction?
The leading theory has been that the people of Rapa Nui over-exploited their own resources, leading to civil war, mass stone head tipping and ruin. This makes Easter Island a poster child for human folly and the dangers of climate change.
But is this theory right? Or is the actual story perhaps more prosaic than that? What other factors (*ahem* racism) could possibly be (*cough* genocide) at play here (*mumbles* lies about cannibalism to justify Christian-ising the place)?
Join Dr’s Will and Rod as they get to the bottom of the destruction of the forgotten people of Rapa Nui.
-
Will 00:00
Hey there. How's your break? Summer or winter? having a nice time?
Rod 00:05
Can I do either?
Will 00:08
If you're on the equator, are you are you in summer or winter?
Rod 00:12
I love summer
Will 00:14
Probably, probably summer. I don't think you call it God. But break is a great time for thinking for reminiscing, thinking about past times thinking about what you might do in the future. But also drilling into your archive, looking at things you've done, not a euphemism, it's not a euphemism.
Rod 00:33
It is now you're never going to be able to say drilling into the archives without getting anything out of me.
Will 00:38
It's really into your archive, I think might be. So listener for you, we are drilling into our archives, finding the episodes that have floated our boats, pressed our buttons made us think this one is one of those topics that for a long time, I've always thought what actually happened there. And when I looked into the story, I found that what I thought happened was not even close to what actually happened. This is what happened on Easter Island and why it matters.
Rod 01:09
So have a good break. And we'll be back at the end of January with fresh episodes.
Will 01:19
It's standard practice in science these days that when you do your publication, you put out a press release as well. So because your publications like The peer reviewed journal, that's where all of the details all of the science goes all the other loaded stuff,
Rod 01:33
Not a novel.
Will 01:34
Yeah, not a novel but it's it's very very wordy, very dense. So the peer reviewed journal gets a little wordy sciency formula kind of stuff. And the press release does the this is what it means and sort of plain English
Rod 01:46
single sentence paragraphs.
Will 01:48
Yeah, stuff like that button. But also occasionally in the press releases, you can get some extras, some disclaimers, qualifications, sort of notes, notes of warning. And so it's pretty interesting when I was reading, reading this press release for pretty interesting paper really? Where they said, look, we stand by by our results and we love our results. They're great, but we are emphatically, just so you're all aware, not climate change deniers. Please. Please, please don't take our results the wrong way.
Will 02:29
Welcome to the wholesome show. Science stories for you. These are crafted, crafted, moulded specially for you to listen while you're at the back of the car
Rod 02:57
Everyone who hears Here's a slightly different story. That's how we do it. Each one is each one is just
Will 03:01
for you. We use algorithms. The wholesome show is me, Will Grant
Rod 03:07
Me, Dr. Roderick Gryphon. I'm not a climate denier, but I know a bloke who is Lambert's
Will 03:12
and we are brought to you by the Australian National Centre for the public awareness of science and not denial, not to say no to denial. And yes to not denial.
Rod 03:25
I think that's the university motto, isn't it?
Will 03:28
No to denial and yes to not denial, I must say yes, it might be punchier, not denial,
Rod 03:33
we say absolutely a lot. Alright, okay. It's such a good start.
Will 03:38
I will say,
Rod 03:40
I'm not I'm not racist. But when you look at the genetics and like, Oh, God, here we go.
Will 03:47
I'm not doing that
Rod 03:48
I've read a few I might, I might bring them in. I've read a few papers and set them for certain ethics courses. And it's really great. We don't want you to take this as a how to, anyway, and off we go.
Will 03:58
I don't know how well you know your poles of the world. Right?
Rod 04:02
There's the north and the south.
Will 04:04
Yes. Yeah. Well, actually more than that, because there's the north. The north magnetic Yeah, there you go. That's it. That's it. So there's the North Pole and the South Pole. The North northern magnetic pole in the south magnetic pole
Rod 04:14
versus the the sexy pole and the average pole. Yep. of the Earth.
Will 04:20
Two other poles. I love these. I love the oceanic pole of inaccessibility. So it's not something that the world spins on.
Rod 04:36
So with the G spot where there is
Will 04:39
a little bit, there's actually a continental pole of inaccessibility as well, but I like the oceanic pole of inaccessibility.
Rod 04:46
We could spend the whole episode me guessing what that is. I mean, you didn't throw the notes away, carry on
Will 04:50
the hardest place in the world to get to from the coasts. So basically, all all oceans have them. In the middle of them somewhere is the spot that's the middle of the The ocean that is furthest away from land. And there's there's a, you know, each ocean has one specific Atlantic
Rod 05:07
they're not circles.
Will 05:08
They're not circles. They're not circles. They're not.
Rod 05:10
I think there may be a problem.
Will 05:13
But there is a global pole of inaccessibility, which is the spot in the ocean that is furthest possible away from land.
Rod 05:23
Of all spots in all oceans. Most land distance,
Will 05:27
it's the most land distance. So this is this is why it's not not a famous pole. It's not as famous as the North Pole, but pretty famous, moderately.
Rod 05:36
We love and most biggest least, we love our extremes.
Will 05:39
any guess where the global oceanic pole of inaccessibility is
Rod 05:43
under the Arctic?
Will 05:45
No, no, it's not. It's not it could be but it's not.
Rod 05:49
Even if it was under it, then the land would be straight up the Mariana Trench?
Will 05:52
Yes, that's foot by depth. That's by depth. This one is how far from land. so it's down in the South Pacific Ocean. Somewhere between Antarctica, South America and New Zealand as a long way to that side of it to the left. Okay. It's interestingly, it's where I mean, it sounds cool, because it's as far away from land as you can get. And so HP Lovecraft in Call of Cthulhu or Call of Cthulhu. He's got his his underground underwater city at that pole. Yeah, sorry. But that's not what this is about. But by definition, it's it's hard to get to. But the ancient Polynesians were crafty, crafty people. So, I mean, there's a story in the seventh century that the ancient Polynesian navigator, Oui Te Rangiora Euro
Rod 06:49
flawless.
Will 06:50
Yeah, my apologies. My apologies. Throughout this. There may be some names that I'm not going to get perfect
Rod 06:56
The trick is to leave gaps between every syllable.
Will 07:00
Yeah, okay. Anyway, the story is that he made it to Antarctica in the seventh century. So this is this is, like, literally
Rod 07:09
not renowned for the warm clothing either. That would have been great.
Will 07:11
That's the thing like there is no puffer jacket, polar fleece sort of thing.
Rod 07:16
Although New Zealand gets cold. New Zealand does get so the Maori probably had some things to do with it.
Will 07:22
Well, they did. Yeah, they described it a place of bitter cold, where rock like structures rose from a solid sea. So it's an oral tradition. We don't have any other other evidence. But we do know that they did explore quite a lot. There's another story in 1770. And this one, this one's very well,
Rod 07:38
100 years later, I'm gonna say
Will 07:40
this, it is very well documented. I'm just giving good stories of Polynesian navigators. To pyre, who jumped on Captain Cook's ship, when Captain Cook was doing his first voyage around the South Pacific, and gave him a chart of all of the islands in like a 6000 kilometre radius around. So you hear the story about Captain Cook being this great navigator. And sure he he achieved a lot. But like, he just said, Are there any locals that know the way and there's there's a guy that says, Yeah, cool. I got a map. Here you go. Here's here's this awesome.
Rod 08:11
Do you know what this means? I didn't realise this. I am a great navigator. Hey, Google, where's blood? It's over there. I found it.
Will 08:20
I just but yeah, so he had, he's got this map and the map this map that I gave Captain Cook, still in the British Library. It's, you know, super detailed map of all of the islands. Yeah, yeah. Let's say yes. Let's say yes. accurate enough of all the islands around it. It's cool. And it may be the 13th century or could have been, it could have been the fourth century but it seems to be probably 13th or fourth. Yes. One of those but it's more likely the 13th century.
Rod 08:50
I'm gonna go ninth.
Will 08:51
Hotu Matua, made it somewhere very near the pole of inaccessibility. He and his crew got to an island they eventually called Rapa Nui, or big rubber league wrap up. That's just about the most inaccessible island in the world. Like, it's as close as it's one of the closest landmass is to the pole of inaccessibility, that being the definition, it's 3500 kilometres from the nearest mainland 2000 kilometres from the nearest other inhabited place.
Rod 09:22
How close is it to the pole of
Will 09:24
inaccessibility? Let's say 2000 kilometers.
Rod 09:32
It has to be further away. But it's one of the it's one of the characters land because that would screw it up.
Will 09:36
So yeah, it counts as land. So it's one of the three bits on the circle that is the outside of the pole of inaccessibility. So it's one of the last places that's getting down there, it's just down that way. It's just it's very, very remote.
Rod 09:53
So it's a long way away from any other land and this poll is even longer away.
Will 09:57
Yeah, let's drop the poll. Don't need to know about the Poll anymore. It's about it's about the islands. It's about the island. Okay, but But you know, 2000 kilometres from the nearest other inhabited island. It's, it's it's miles River, okay, but Hotu Matua and a collection of his friends and family, they got there. And they set up a little civilization of their own. A little pocket universe. They farmed, they caught fish they developed and I didn't know this until reading this, a unique system of writing that to date remains undeciphered the only form of poetry now the only form of Polynesian writing, which is just wow. Yeah,
Rod 10:38
I know. We've heard a lot about this island that bit. No.
Will 10:43
It's interesting what people don't hear about this island,
Rod 10:46
and on the moon, and they built it wasn't in the movie. There was a movie,
Will 10:50
I'm sure there's a movie. That's good courses movies, because this is a really interesting Island. It's if you were to write a definition of an enigmatic Island. It's number one like it is number one, because this small little pocket universe this pocket civilization, they built a truly impressive collection of nearly 1000 Stone monoliths. They did Moai. We know them as Easter Island heads. They're, they're not heads that they're mostly that they're actually bodies, but they have big heads.
Rod 11:19
I know the feeling.
Will 11:20
They're some they're placed all around the coastline of the island. Some are up to 10 metres high and weighed like 86 tonnes. Most of them were a bit smaller than that. But another thing that I found out when reading is a lot of them. A lot of them also had these Moai stone heads had ornate, red top knots on top so that they're they're put out as well. I didn't see that. they were red made out of a different stone. So make the body out of out of the black basalt. And the top is out of that is red.
Rod 11:57
Red Rock.
Will 11:57
Yeah, Red Rock. It's awesome. They also, as some researchers discovered in 1979, often but not always had eyes put in coral eyes.
Rod 12:09
not human.
Will 12:09
No, no not not human,
Rod 12:11
I thought you were going to say they ha monocles on them or something. The way you were gesturing is like them. Some of them have monocles with their top.
Will 12:16
Do you know that would be so nice? Well, okay, there, there are some who kind of thought that kind of thing a little bit.
Rod 12:25
I say these look like eyeglasses. Indeed, in this must be the gentleman lever.
Will 12:30
But after sustaining that unique little pocket universe for about 1000 years, possibly less, possibly a bit more. But anyway, and achieving truly unique things. The Rapanui civilization collapsed. They stopped carving them away. Many of them are why were toppled and fell, and their population plummeted to maybe just 3% of what they were just a few decades earlier. The question is, what happened? Well, actually, no, the actual question is, why does our answer matter? But before that, before I tell you what actually happened? Let's hear a bit more about the beginning.
Rod 13:10
I'm still rolling around in the profundity of not what happened, but why does our answer matter? No matter what your indices, not what happened, but who cares?
Will 13:19
Yes, I care. You care.
Rod 13:20
No, but that's what the why does it matter? It's really saying who cares?
Will 13:22
And who cares? Yes, ahead. Okay. So oral tradition holds Rapanui and Rapanui is the is the Polynesian name for the islands. But it's not the original name because we don't necessarily have the written down does read it. But it may be connected with the original name, but there's it's not necessarily goes all the way back. Anyway, that's that's the name that is known by now. But most people in the rest of the world know it is Easter Island. So it was settled by that two canoe expedition, possibly in the year 1200. From western parts of Polynesia, Marie Ranga, or Marie Tohei. By the chief that I said How to my tour and his captain tuo called Eco. The island was first scouted by after the chief dreamed of a far off country. And then he lost three wars with his neighbouring chief and he's like, I gotta bugger off. I'm gonna I'm going to look for this new plan.
Rod 14:22
I had a dream, had a few punch ups. Back to the dream.
Will 14:26
Yeah, let's let's go had some fun, right. Look, obviously there's some some sort of neighbourhood dispute. Okay, so at the time of the arrival, the island already had one lone settler, Nick gay to vacate Tirana.
Rod 14:38
It wasn't a surprise.
Will 14:39
He doesn't turn up anymore. I don't know. He's like,
Rod 14:42
there's no one here.
Will 14:44
I don't know. I mean, they call him a settler. So it sounds like he's pretty happy being there. But it could have been the other way around. It could have been his like, Thank you rescue now. I don't.
Rod 14:53
I see options.
Will 14:54
I see options, but he didn't keep going. After a brief brief stay at alakina The colonists moved around the whole island. It's not a huge island. It's only like 20 or 30 square kilometres or something like that. And they start started carving the movie straightaway.
Rod 15:11
Well, look, you've got our priorities, new settlement miles from anywhere. What we need is a ring of giant statues.
Will 15:16
I kind of think you do.
Rod 15:18
That's what I do. Every time I move into a new house ring of giant statues. First thing I do, I don't even get the electricity put on until that sort of
Will 15:23
No, yeah, sure. Sure. That's a smart. And it was the captain, not the chief, but the captain of the first ship who said, This is what we need. We need some muay all around. He was the one who brought the statues and cause them to work. Now. Yeah, this is what I said before the radiocarbon dating. So that was oral tradition. That's that's what we know from the oral tradition. Radiocarbon dating says probably around the year 1200. And the radiocarbon dating says as soon as we've got settlements, we got muai. So it happened. It happened like as straightaway as you said, like,
Will 15:31
Wow. Do you want food? Hang on? No, statues first
Will 16:02
Okay. So they carved the statues out of a rock quarry up in one of the volcanoes. Rano Raraku. And then there's debate about how they moved around. They would move these giant statues. So about 86 tonnes. So they either roll them on palm trees, or maybe they could sort of walk them by sort of I mean, they're, they're big and they're heavy. And yeah, these are, you know, not a huge island and they definitely didn't have any machines.
Rod 16:41
Well, no, a lever is a machine, man.
Will 16:47
about half of the muai are still in the quarry. So there's a bunch that were half carved or not completely carved that were in the process of being carved. Okay, so that's like 400 or something like that are still in the quarry. But about 400
Rod 17:01
still in the quarry.
Will 17:02
Yeah, there was heaps I mean, this is this is a process.
Rod 17:06
And in my head, it was like 80 In total, you know, like,
Will 17:09
nearly 1000 all up nearly 1,000 all up, as well.
Rod 17:14
Wow Okay.
Will 17:15
Yeah, no, it was there's heaps and, and there's a, you can get a nice map of where they are on the island. And they're literally like a fence. Like, they're all in fact, and they're all looking nearly all nearly all looking inland. Watching over the villages is how it's mostly interpreted, but I'm
Rod 17:33
guarding them, keeping them in
Will 17:35
keeping them here,
Rod 17:35
there was an alien space prison and in the olden days, those things actually electrified and they sent beams of shield to keep the baddies in.
Will 17:44
In terms of where this story goes, there's parallel there's a parallel that comes later. Yeah, and archaeologists and cultural anthropologists are saying okay, the muai I bearers of sacred mana, so they have a lot of political, political and religious authority. Yeah. Okay, so that's the, the indigenous inhabitants. What about Europeans? So the first European
Rod 18:12
we're here to improve things!
Will 18:16
Yes, yes. Surprise listener, surprise listener. The Europeans are not the heroes of this story.
Rod 18:25
You with your black arm view was a black armband view history, ruining everything.
Will 18:30
The first European to reach Rapanui was Jacob Roggeveen. So he's a Dutch explorer and merchant used to want to see what's going on here. Indeed, and they bet it but the story it's actually starts with his dad Arendt, a Rand was a mathematician, astronomer student of rhetoric, philosophy. He was dabbler and theorist of navigation, but he also loved he had a dream just like a Hut Te Matoa, hit the dream of Terra Astralis. So in that, in that era, also, this was in the 17th century, a whole bunch of maps, that rough, pretty decent maps of the world. So that half of Africa, North America, South America, dragons Europe, less dragons, this time that they're reducing dragons, but they had a huge continent down the bottom, though, like there must be something down there because it needs some weight to hold the earth
Rod 19:18
stop it from floating away
Will 19:19
floating away.
Rod 19:20
Fair enough. I've always agreed with that
Will 19:23
I don't know why they all just got this idea of yes, there must be some land down there.
Rod 19:27
But Earth would flip over. Because we all know it has an open
Will 19:30
it's not and it's not flipped over.
Rod 19:31
No, it's it's the right way up
Will 19:33
So there must be some sort of Terra Astralis. So this is this mystery southern land
Rod 19:37
which means heavy ballast continent.
Will 19:42
He got permission from the States General of the United Netherlands. So you have to ask permission if you can go down there and
Rod 19:49
the state's general
Will 19:50
I think the state's general is like the Parliament of United Netherlands. But they said yep, you can you can go and explore. In this time you needed permission to go and explore not from the people that you are exploring on top of but from the people that don't own it, then. Yeah, but they didn't want to explore in each other's patch.
Rod 20:10
So, apologies for cross exploring.
Will 20:12
Yeah, no, no, there's there was a I think it was the Portuguese and the Spanish had a line. You can explore on this side you can explore on that side,
Rod 20:19
which of course was beautifully on and entirely,
Will 20:22
but Arendt he got the permission but couldn't raise any money. And he died four years later, and 1679 his dream unfulfilled. But his son got the bug, or he very slowly got the bug. He must have inherited the permission from his dad. But he didn't rush. He went out and became a merchant. He went to the East Indies or the West Indies, East West Indies
Rod 20:47
All the Indies.
Will 20:48
Yeah, one of the Indies multiplayer he made. He made his fortune made a bunch of money. He picked a bunch of religious fights as well.
Rod 20:54
Good call. What are you religious? Come on, put them up, put them up aside, put them up.
Will 21:00
And in the 1721. So this is this is literally 40 years later, he's had this permission sitting in the in the backdrop for a long time.
Rod 21:06
That is the long play.
Will 21:08
Yeah, at 62. So his dad died when he was like 22 or something like that. He was in his 60s and he inherited the permission then. And then he thought at 62 I've had enough religious fights. I've made my money. I'm going to go and explore.
Rod 21:23
I'm feeling like an early developer then because you know, I've had my religious slight fights that it's other things and maybe I'm ready. I don't feel bad now. I don't if I was 60 to be okay.
Will 21:30
Yeah maybe maybe and it's a nice if you haven't written your novel, or achieved your, rock band stardom or explored
Rod 21:40
grand theory of everything.
Will 21:41
Yeah, or Yeah, any of these. You can still get time unless you're over 62. Sorry,
Rod 21:46
if you 63 is just turn off now. Just forget it. Check yourself in
Will 21:50
Okay. They left in August 17 21. And Roggeveen guided his expedition down south, past South America through the Falkland Islands. And around Cape Horn. I'm gesturing around, ships proceeded up the coast of Chile, through the Juan Fernandez islands. And then as traditionally called, they pushed off into into the unknown. Now I'm gonna read a whole chunk from Rogovin's journey
Rod 22:15
I'm terrified.
Will 22:21
These guys had pretty good ideas at this point. I mean, still, I still admire, you know, well, this is the thing about the Polynesian navigators. I mean, they're in the The Dutch are in ships that have maybe, I don't know, say 50 people on them or something like that. Don't quote that number. They're bigger. But the Polynesians are in there. They're not just canoe canoe, like
Rod 22:41
There are sails.
Will 22:42
Yeah, they got sails. Now, they're two canoes together, but they're not. They're not huge vessels. But my God, they look awesome. Actually.
Rod 22:49
You have seen live mock ups and things. Um, at least in Fiji and the big canoe, like walking and stuff. Freaking impressive.
Will 22:58
Anyway, still, you're in the middle of the ocean. And then in terms of listening, you can be days and days and days away from seeing anything. I'm thinking months, whatever. You know, the thing is, Captain Cook was later he was pissed off. Because he found out at this point, actually, the Polynesians are faster at moving around. Like they, I mean, they had sales. And also they've got paddles and oars, and they were probably faster vessels and they probably knew the area
Rod 23:20
becomes less of an issue when you build your boat.
Will 23:23
And it's hard to paddle in. I think they were I mean, this goes back again to you know, European ideas of superiority. But how did you get there faster than me? And they're like, this is you are so slow, dude,
Rod 23:36
we can paddle. Yeah, I think so. How do we use mate? Come on, I'll even lend you my oars.
Will 23:40
So I'm gonna read a chunk from ravines journal already. We continued on another 12 degrees to the westward or the latitude abovementioned and had landbirds and seafile about us every day, who kept company with us until we at last sighted in Ireland, on the sixth of April being our first Easter day at which we were heartily pleased. And because it was on the day of the glorious resurrection of our Lord, that it appeared to us. We at once named it Ashland or Easter land,
Rod 24:03
Ashland, something different than Australia.
Will 24:07
It's about eight miles in circumference. Our African galley had got close in with the land and reported that the place appeared to be very fertile. That's a cook so he had to
Rod 24:15
I'm just enjoying the traditional sparse prose of it. They just cut right to the chase.
Will 24:20
Moreover, that it must be inhabited as smoke had been seen notice rising in several places. Next day we stood in with our ships to look for a harbour whereupon one of the natives came off in a small Skiff to meet us some two miles off the land. We took him aboard our vessel and gave him a piece of linen cloth to wrap around his body for he was quite naked. And we offered him beads and trinkets, all of which he hung around his neck together with a dried fish. But I loved straight going straight for the colonial little tribe meeting. He's naked, the naked, man, we have to cover him and here's some beads and trinkets.
Rod 24:53
It's like pointless shit we don't even want
Will 24:54
oh my god did I know I know that. The stereotype of these colonists buying Buying people off with beads and trinkets is
Rod 25:04
There's a reason for the stereotype. It ain't because it's biassed
Will 25:08
he was very, he was very cleverly and regularly painted with all sorts of figures. He was of a brown tint, and had long ears which hung down as far as his shoulders if they'd been stretched to that length by being waited after the fashion of the Mongolian Moors. He was fairly tall in stature, strong of limb, good appearance and lively and main, as well as pleasing in speech and gesture. We gave the south lander or foreign visitor a glass of wine to drink but he only took it and tossed it into his eyes. We were surprised. I don't know.
Rod 25:39
I'd love to be in a bar when you meet someone for the first time. Thanks. I love that. What was it he was he was entertaining. It was the word they used essentially.
Will 25:48
He I've got appearance lively and mean and pleasing and speech and gesture
Rod 25:53
pleasing. He pleased us as he threw wine in his eyes.
Will 25:58
I fancy he thought we designed to poison him by its means, which is a common usage among Indians. Thereupon we dressed our new guests in garments and put him on a hat. But he was evidently very ill at ease and clothing. Who was they gave him some food he was ignorant of spoon knife or fork off. They played some music, and he danced around and grabbed our hands quite merrily. Now, it's time for time for time for him to go back home though, but he parted from us unwillingly. He held up his hands and cast his glances towards the land and began to cry out loudly in these words. Oh, droga older rogue roga he was not at all disposed to return to his Skiff but prefer to remain with us that we might convey him ashore on our ship.
Rod 26:38
Is that what he was doing? Anyway? I make a loader that means Would you please wreck off don't go there.
Will 26:44
No, no, that it seems it seems okay. At this moment. It seems okay
Rod 26:49
because he does have you know, childlike naivety about the real world. So of course, he's going to be happy to see his destroyers come over.
Will 26:56
The next day the native swam off in dinghies in the 1000s some with small donkeys or skiffs brought us
Rod 27:04
1000s
Will 27:07
Yeah, okay, in 1000s. Some with small donkeys or skiffs brought us many cooks and baked hens together with many roots. What I like potatoes and not not spiritual for a while on the beach. They were running up and down like deer, someone seated in groups of 50 or 100 and looked upon our ship with wonderment, some out of mere curiosity, but others were desirous of finding out what design had brought us.
Rod 27:29
Like deer.
Will 27:31
I think he's just saying they that
Rod 27:33
it's what you choose to compare it to. They're running, running like deer, were they?
Will 27:40
they kindled many fires by their idols, either by way of offerings or for the purpose of prayer. Light now warmth, we thereupon got ready to effect a landing means they were going to shore. But just then our former visitor came on board together with many others of his people, bringing us a quantity of dressed fouls and routes. Chicken potatoes, among them was an entirely white man, who was wearing white chunks of wood in his ears as large as one's fist and bore a very devout appearance so that we took him to be an idol priest. Idol like worshipping the honest.
Rod 28:13
I'm not entirely white. I assume they mean painted.
Will 28:17
I don't know, I don't know.
Rod 28:19
Or albino?
Will 28:20
this is just the language that Raghavan said.
Rod 28:22
Yeah, cuz if he was European. They would sit Oh, my gosh, it's a euro.
Will 28:26
All three of them. No, all three of those people. possibilities. So it could be painted. Could have painted skin. He could have been Albina. He could have been European.
Rod 28:36
Okay. You think I would have made more of it if he was Euro though?
Will 28:40
I think so. Yeah, I think so. And I think I think in this time white, probably didn't mean European. Not Yeah, no, it probably probably meant he's probably looking very, very not as in the skin, the pinkish hue that you and I share, but the ruddy glow. I think you may be like, but I think he actually meant he might be painted that might be the most accurate thing. That'd be doesn't mean that other didn't take it take us up by some misadventure. One of these natives who are on board out that our vessel got shot
Rod 29:11
whoopsie I accidentally loaded my musket and tapped down the thing aimed at him and pulled the trigger
Will 29:17
like in the sentence, you know, where's the active in this sentence? got shot. Yeah, he became of shot.
Rod 29:27
There was a shotness about him,
Will 29:29
and this must have caused great consternation among them, for they all immediately sprang into the water and some swam away towards the shore, but others made off in their skiffs was all possible haste
Rod 29:37
must have caused consternation.
Will 29:40
We then with 150 Min soldiers as well as Seaman proceeded in the name of God ashore and among them. Raghavan was the first onshore the inhabitants pressed round us in such crowds that we could scarcely pass along so that we had to force our way through them. And because some of them went so far as to lay hold of our arms, our weapons They were fired upon by which they were direly alarmed and dispersed but collected again in swarms though keeping some 10 pieces in front of us
Rod 30:07
I'm missing or missing a motive what do they mean they were forced to go forward what was forcing them
Will 30:15
by the name of God
Rod 30:16
fuck me I know I should never be surprised but I repeatedly am
Will 30:20
and and just the way that this context casually distinct descends into violence
Rod 30:27
well also and that what's the catalyst looked somehow there was an enchantment on the boat therefore we're going to storm onto the land with troops
Will 30:34
It's weird, he's describing it pretty we just went on on and
Will 30:38
dudes got shot we mayaswell pile on
Will 30:38
so they're swarming around and many of them were shot at this juncture and among the slain lay the man who had been with us with us before at which we were very much aggrieved or we knew that one or both so now we care about so in order to obtain possession of the bodies they could congregate in great numbers bringing with them presents various kinds of fruits and vegetables in order that we might more readily surrender them to them they're slain so it seems like about 12 people were killed
Rod 31:09
okay cool I mean that's what you do. And this is what I do when I go to a new place or if I go to a party at a house and never been to like a fight kill a few
Will 31:17
just few kill
Rod 31:18
kill a few because then they bring me chicken and chips.
Will 31:20
Yes, yes. And as you'll see some nice fruits in a second. the consternation of these people was by no means abated even their children's children in that place will in times come to be able to recount the story of it.
Rod 31:31
Wonder why why would that have such an impression on them
Will 31:33
so they kept up with an uncommon yelling women has children brought palm branches red and white streamers and various kinds of fruits Indian figs, large nuts, sugar canes roots valve then it goes it's weird. It's he says that they bring the fruit and they also made tender of their womankind asking whether we would accompany them into their huts or rather take them off to the ships however
Rod 31:57
made tender of, as in legal tender,
Will 32:01
I don't know.
Rod 32:03
Would you like some ladies
Will 32:04
I and you know this is Raghavan zone diary. So how is he reporting? It's just seems
Rod 32:10
they offered up and by offering up I mean, grab him by the hair. Yeah,
Will 32:14
yeah. Okay, cool, cool. However, we did them no ill
Rod 32:18
course not,
Will 32:19
but we made them a present of a piece of gaily coloured linen. And they liked that. We also distributed choral baubles small mirrors, by which they might be assured that we were their friends after killing 12 of them.
Rod 32:32
You had to get that out of the way that's how they respect you
Will 32:34
then there's this bit where they bring up a bunch of fruits and great quantities of fruit being Indian figs as large as a cucumber in spat a span in length, and a proportionate thickness with a green rind when one peels off the this the pulp tastes like figs or as sweet as honey. There are some times as many as 100 on a single bunch. And like us bananas, he's getting a banana. He was quite impressed by the the Indian fig that he called the banana
Rod 33:00
cucumber fruit.
Will 33:02
Okay. Okay, so he goes on to describe a bunch of things about their households, and a bunch their, what they're eating, the food that they ate, what they what they farmed, all of those kinds of things.
Rod 33:17
So as we strode through, shock them and burn their crops, we thought we'd describe them.
Will 33:21
Well, I'll come to his description at the end, but he did also add in a little bit of physical, physical description. These natives were universally Blythe and Mary and well built strong of limb not exactly slender yet nimble on their feet friendly and pleasant in manner but submissive with all and also very timid as for their complexion, they are brownish about the hue of a Spaniard that you you know you know that they have a complex spectrum because there's no colour system
Rod 33:54
when you go to get your house payment is more of a Spanish Brown and you got one of those?
Will 34:03
Yet one find some among them have a darker shade and others quite white, and no less also, a few have a reddish tint, as if somewhat severely tanned by the sun.
Rod 34:12
So multiple colours of skin
Will 34:16
He's observing. Their ears were so long as they hung down as far as their shoulders, some wore white ornaments in the lobes as a special embellishment.
Rod 34:26
Okay, so fully sick piercings.
Will 34:28
The people had to judge by appearance no weapons, although, as I remarked, they relied in case of need on their gods or the idols which standard erected on all along the shore in great numbers before it's they fall down and invoke them. These idols were all hewn out of stone and in the form of a man with long years adorned on the head with a crown yet all made with skill we're at We wondered, not a little we've thought about this a lot. So, he ends his description here with this island is a suitable and convenient place at which to obtain refreshment, as all the country is under cultivation and we saw in the distance whole tracts of woodland, it should be possible to grow corn all over or even plant vineyards, which might be very serviceable in the event of a new discovery of the Southland. The people of this island appeared of such disposition as to be easily brought to the Christian faith.
Rod 35:16
What a good idea. So look at all the shit they've got going on really working. We can fix that
Will 35:20
we can Yeah, you can come here easily and get refreshment and also
Rod 35:24
change everything.
Will 35:25
You can change everything.
Rod 35:27
It's cool.
Will 35:29
I kind of kind of do you feel like you feel like something might be coming?
Rod 35:32
I feel it's the end of it. They introduced vineyards and the Rapanui label is now renowned for its Chardonnay
Will 35:40
It could be a good like a New Zealand shot and it's probably about the same sort of climate.
Rod 35:45
I'll take a pinot
Will 35:47
it's well known that by the 20th century, things had really collapsed and by 20th century that's that's definitely much lighter than things. Benny Pizer in his excellent article in the journal energy and environment. Not sure why but you got it there, Benny. That's awesome. I'll give you the name of the journal later, but the article later but I don't want to flag it now. He notes this when at the start of the 20th century, the first archaeological expeditions tried to reconstruct the island's history. They stumbled upon an exhausted terrain, the indigenous population had been almost completely annihilated. Its culture and natural habitat destroyed as a result of physical cultural environmental obliteration. So where do we go? So we met at ravines time 1000s of people a paradise he called it you know, full of farmland full of people doing things and, and you know, all of the all of the people being strong of mine and lively have limb
Rod 36:46
paradise. This is a paradise, we can fix that.
Will 36:51
So what are the what are the possible answers? I don't know. Have you ever read? Have you ever read Jared Diamond's read collapse?
Rod 37:00
I've started all of his books.
Will 37:01
Famous and you don't have to, I'm gonna go. So there's a couple of possible answers here. And I'm going to start with the most famous one first, because the most famous one, it's got some problems. So the most famous one comes in Jared Diamond's mega million selling boom, collapse, how societies choose or fail to succeed. Now he wasn't the first to put this idea forward. You can see it in academic articles in the 80s and 90s. And in fact, you can go all the way back to to Ohio, in the 1950s. And but diamond made it popular. So what was diamonds answer? It's pretty simple for him. The Rapanui people the Polynesians arrived. And they went statue building crazy. Yeah, and statue, statue, statue, and all that statue building and moving meant they cut down tree tree tree.
Rod 37:58
That's that's what the movie depicts. I do believe
Will 38:01
More statues, more trees, more statues, more trees, more statues, more trees. And then they they the Rapanui ends the Easter Islanders, destroyed their forest, degraded the islands topsoil, wiped out their plants and drove the animals to extinction. Basically. Ecocide is a way people destroy the environment. And then it couldn't sustain that civilization anymore.
Rod 38:24
Yeah, that's that is the classic story I've heard too, or is basically at least a subset of idiotic idol worshipping twits, came in and meshed everything.
Will 38:32
So that yeah, they say, you know, the decline was not instant. It was as a result of this self inflicted environmental devastation that is complex society collapsed, and it descended into civil war and cannibalism and self destruction. So they reckon it happened around 1680. So at least 40 years before, before Roggeveen turned up,
Will 38:53
I see a hole in that then
Will 38:56
yes, yes, yes, quite a hole. call me picky. The power of the chiefs and the priests was overthrown in at this time by some military leaders called the matador and then it got disintegrated into a civil war. Now, during the Civil War, they started toppling each other's idols pushing them down and fighting over resources. No, you didn't I know well, so resulted in an abrupt and irrevocable termination of the giant statue carving so they so in diamonds theory, they stopped carving any statues because we're busy fighting and then started fighting and pushing them all down. So the statue toppling event the hoary Moy and that kept going, they didn't put them all down in one day, sort of, they would keep pushing them down until the 1830s. By 1838, the only standing muai were on the slopes, just a few were still standing. And then they also turned to the largest remaining meat source available. Humans, who in Diamond's book whose bones became common in late Easter Island garbage dumps. So the diamond cites some oral traditions here. Sure, of cannibalism. The most inflammatory taunt that could be snuggled at anatomy was the flesh of your mother sticks between my teeth.
Rod 40:17
that's not necessarily cannibalism. No, it's not. That's a different podcast.
Will 40:24
There you go. So he reckons when Europeans arrived in the 18th century, they found a crashed society. There was just a few survivors left. And all of those statue makers were gone.
Rod 40:38
Exactly as Ronan din did not describe.
Will 40:41
Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like it's summed up here. It was the islanders themselves who had destroyed their own ancestors work. Yes. stupidity of man,
Rod 40:50
because they're like children. Wasn't that the I mean, he didn't say that. But you know,
Will 40:55
well, look, I don't think he said that. Like there was there was, in this argument, there's a whole there's a whole bunch of racism, and I'll come to some of that. But there's a whole bunch of this argument suited a purpose. So when diamond wrote his book is 2005. You know, it fits into the into the environmental movement, where you get a whole bunch of people saying, We're so stupid as humans that we will use up our resources until we die.
Rod 41:23
So yeah, it's not like we haven't done it before. He's a micro example. Yeah, I get that I get the politics and the messaging. I understand why that would be appealing.
Will 41:30
Yeah, like there's, there's there's books called the Green history of the world by Clive Ponting. And he begins with the lessons of Easter Island. Go, others would say, you know, this is a guy called Flendly, would say it's going to collapse by 2100. We're all going to be doomed, which I got no, we're working on that fight, then they would use Easter Island still seems the most plausible model for Earth, Island. So they they're using this. Jared Diamond himself. Easter islands isolation makes it the clearest example of a society that destroyed itself by over exploiting its own resources. Those are the reasons why people see the collapse of Easter Island society as a metaphor, a worst case scenario for what may lie ahead for us in our own future.
Rod 42:16
Look, it's a classic, you see the things through the lenses you're looking at. I mean, of course, you're looking for that. Without without mal intent, even you're going to see it.
Will 42:25
But surprise, it's all a crock of shit. It's all a huge crock of shit. And it's about it's based on some interesting bits of racism, and a whole bunch of denial of what actually happened here.
Rod 42:38
That would do it.
Will 42:40
thing is people knew all along, there was a bunch of the, the I'm gonna cite the research that came out that at the very start, that was by Robert De Nepali and Carl lipo. So so that's really recent research that's helped to contribute to this story. But you can go back all through the 20th century, people knew what happened. It's just that other people denied it. And
Rod 43:01
we can see why be dangerous to so I'm assuming from your start as well that if you do put up and go, actually, it wasn't a code side or ecological catastrophe. People go well, if you're denying that, that means you're pro Earth rape.
Will 43:14
That's, why Carl lipo, he was the he was the guy at the beginning part of that study that I'm going to talk about in a second. He said, we're not denying climate change, because people had taken up the story of Easter Island so much as a metaphor of you know, the climate is going to collapse. This is what happens when you use up your resources.
Rod 43:33
The iconic story.
Will 43:34
It's just bullshit. And it just ignores what actually happened. So yeah, there's there's like, there's a Franco Belgian expedition in like, 1934. Full on the awesome era of terrible anthropology.
Rod 43:45
Terrible, awesome. They would have eaten well, they are delicious beers.
Will 43:48
Alfred Metro and Henry lovesherry. so they documented it in 1934. But there's others all the way through? Yeah. So yeah, as I said, first European visitor Raghavan, 1722 he saw a potential paradise. Captain Cook came 50 years later. And he it didn't look like a paradise to him. But he was like, that looks fine to come along. Yeah, I think you know, it potentially you could imagine Roggeveen turns up and it's it's spring, or it's harvest time and it's looking awesome. Cook turns up and it's winter and it's not so glorious, but it didn't seem like society was in a radically different way
Rod 44:24
but also for Raghavan. If you let's say well, spring is seeing a bunch of naked chicks surrounded by food. Yeah, they're all being very compliant. What is it? A white European 17 century like, I'm gonna call it paradise.
Will 44:41
Oh, no doubt, no doubt. Honestly. Yeah. But between 1722 when Raghavan turned up and the end of the 19th century, we know at least 53 European boats, explorers, navies, whalers, slavers visit Rapanui and while ravines visit was bad 12 people killed some worldway worse. So
Rod 45:06
like slavers would probably be worse than killing 12 people.
Will 45:09
Yeah, they were
Rod 45:10
they took 13
Will 45:11
They were. So let's go October 1862. So this is in the middle of the Civil US Civil War sort of time. Two marauding ships landed on Easter Island in search for slave labourers. The crew seized and captured 150 people and transferred them to Peru where they were sold as slaves for an average price of $300. Between 1862 and march 1863, an estimated 1000 to 1400 more Rapanui aeons the actual numbers are known, were captured and deported by Peruvian and Spanish slave Raiders
Rod 45:42
1000 Plus.
Will 45:43
Yep. And we've got a pretty good estimate. I'll come to that later of the total population, among them with a king and his son, and it's believed that almost 90% of those that were captured by these slavers died in the following month and of disease and maltreatment.
Rod 46:00
Well, that's just bad economics.
Will 46:02
And you know, because that was so horrible. International protests in Peru repatriated some 100 Polynesians who had survived the horrors of this slave labour, but they put them back on random Polynesian islands. And they took them from random Polynesian islands.
Rod 46:17
They didn't know the difference.
Will 46:18
And that was a deliberate policy. Oh, so they just say they would go slaving black birding, it was called. They'd catch Polynesians throughout these islands, including Rapanui. And if they were going to put them back, then they would put them randomly back to instigate tribal conflicts and confusion.
Rod 46:36
Like, what the fuck did you how do you make a terrible thing worse?
Will 46:40
Yes. Yeah. So so they're all cool. According to some later accounts, about 100 or so enslaved, people were shipped back to Easter Island. We don't know if they are from the right place or not. But most of them died on their on their way from smallpox. Renewed slave raids continued in the 1870s. While this was happening, they also decided some European traders, I'm not sure quite why to do an actual eco side and environmental destruction.
Rod 47:14
So they got bored distilling people
Will 47:16
I know, JB De Treu Bonyer, and J branda. They had a policy of trying to get rid of the last remnants of the indigenous population. So they're talking actual genocide here. And to do this, they burnt down all their houses. And after burning the natives huts De Treu Bonyer had all their sweet potatoes pulled out of the ground three times to facilitate the persuasion of the starving natives, who had this little hope of surviving on their own island
Rod 47:46
to were they slaving as well. Or they just wanted to say this is ours now or like,
Will 47:52
I guess, I don't know, why don't they? I don't think they were. I don't know what they were doing. I don't know
Rod 47:58
what, been a long trip we're bored?
Will 48:01
Could have been. It could have been.
Rod 48:03
So it's not even clear what the intent was.
Will 48:05
So at the same time, there's the stories of cannibalism going around that were totally made up, of course, in the European press. So there's a story of a young commander of a French vessel who had landed on Easter Island, fortuitously escaped being the victim of cannibals. Mr. Oliver was brought back on board his whole body covered with wounds he had on various parts of his body, the teeth marks of these cruel Islanders who had begun to eat him alive.
Rod 48:28
And you have an Apple stuff in his mouth and a sprig of parsley in his Yeah, and he had the golden
Will 48:31
complete bullshit. totally made up. They made up more of these stories to justify going in and Christianising the island
Will 48:33
Ahh, can't believe I forgot that.
Will 48:34
Yeah, yeah, because in this same era, while the slave traders are raiding, and the others are ripping up the crops, then you've got French missionaries, who came to introduce Christianity to get rid of the cannibalism. So between 1864 and 1868, you're angry yet?
Rod 49:06
A little miffed,
Will 49:07
French missionaries converted the population of the island to Christianity
Rod 49:10
to save them from the fake cannibalism
Will 49:11
erasing their connection with the past and the muai
Rod 49:14
Cool, cool. Cool.
Will 49:16
So they're on the brink of extinction.
Rod 49:18
say what you will about Christian missionaries, but they got shit done. Got shit? No, they still do.
Will 49:23
So this is like literally half of the population at least being removed by slavers, smallpox, other diseases and starvation treatment like that. They're getting their their crops burned, their houses burned. And then you get these missionaries coming in, and within four years, exhausted from the ravages of genocide and unable to hold on to their vanishing traditions, the survivors surrendered to the cause of Christian missionaries.
Rod 49:47
But that's what true devotion is based on
Will 49:49
by 1868. The last survivors of a one stupendous civilization had been converted. By 1877, the annihilation of Rapanui civilization was practically complete. Okay, so there was there's no one knew anything more they were all of the previous traditions. 10 years later, after Chile officially annexed the island at 1888. The few survivors of Rapanui has forgotten genocide were forced into a detention centre in the village of herunger, a camp where they were confined under the most appalling conditions for nearly 100 years.
Rod 50:25
What?
Will 50:26
it was surrounded by a barbed wire enclosure with two gates in it, and no one was allowed to pass through them without the permission of the Chilean military leader. At six in the afternoon, the these gates were locked these regulations remained unchanged until 1964.
Rod 50:39
What the tits? What?
Will 50:42
1000 Surviving Easter islanders were then living in the most unbelievable wretchedness and lack of freedom.
Rod 50:47
Why? I know we say this in our intensive all episodes, and not only on this podcast, but why choose to be a dick at a colossal scale. I just don't get it.
Will 50:57
The thing that blows my mind about it all is this is this is literally a genocide, like you have you have taken huge chunks of the population away enslaved, you have brought disease, you have brought famine, then you've locked them all up. And then And then you said, Oh, you did this to yourself. You did this destroy
Rod 51:16
what's in it. What's just, this is what they call fun.
Will 51:22
So here's the thing, this is this is the paper that came out last year, this year, this year, Robert De Nepali and Carl Lippo. from Binghamton University. So they use the radiocarbon dating method to estimate the population size of the island, going back over time, and what they showed is basically from first settlement in about 1200. Up until 1722, when European contact, the the population had steadily gone up, there was never a civil war. Never a moment when they just didn't happen. Just all made up. It was a functioning society that had lived quite well. Yes. You know, they had lost a whole bunch of trees, but they survived. And they were resilient. And they kept going there was never this self destructive collapse.
Rod 52:06
Cool.
Will 52:10
why has this narrative come about? So I was looking at as I was looking at this and so diamond, you know, his idea of They killed themselves, you know ecocide? Yeah, yeah, it fits into modern environmental movements.
Rod 52:25
it's a quick, simple narrative. If you don't dig too hard, and you're looking for those narratives, you're gonna find them. It's no surprise,
Will 52:31
but there's also this weird racism that goes into this. when I was reading this, it ruined a hero of mine. I was like,
Rod 52:40
Uh oh, is that me?
Will 52:41
no, it didn't run, you didn't ruin you. Tua Haidal, famous anthropologist who did a KonTiki adventure. Like he, his theory was that you could go the other way across the Pacific, you could go from South America across to backwards going backwards. And so in the 50s 60s 70s, I can't remember. He sailed a boat, tiny little boat, the KonTiki him and his him and his mates,
Rod 53:09
Oh the original Kontiki,
Will 53:10
the original Kontiki. They floated across, I thought that's, that's really cool. Put the whole problem with that. The reason that he did it is because he reckoned that white people were the ones that built the muai on Easter Island. He was like, There's no way and this goes back all of the Europeans, no way. These Polynesians these primitive natives could have done this,
Rod 53:34
the Spanish coloured, how could they?
Will 53:36
How could they possibly, and so he's, he's like, okay, so it must have been some white people who came across from Europe and down South America,
Rod 53:43
went passed Bunnings got the tools
Will 53:46
and then built all these cool things. And then they were wiped out by the native, who ate them, obviously, who ate them who cannibalised them these savages and degenerates. And this idea, you know, it kept going all the way along this idea that
Rod 54:00
people are screwed if you're starting premises, by definition, no matter what we are superior, then everything else falls into line very conveniently.
Will 54:08
And so that's it. So underpinning all of this is a whole bunch of different racisms. there's the racism of slave trading and and the actual genocide that happened. But then there's the racism that says, These people could never have built this stuff. So it must have been white people, and they must have killed themselves. So
Rod 54:27
not only the white people do it. Those dudes were, yeah, they killed themselves because it just,
Will 54:32
it just blows my mind. Here's a unique little pocket universe, this unique little pocket civilization where they develop their own system of writing, which is unique for Polynesians, but it's still a unique thing around the world. And they built an amazing system of producing the muai and then they were wiped out. Really quite deliberately, really quite deliberately weakly.
Rod 54:57
Like the cultural stuff sounds like it disappeared fast.
Will 55:01
Yep, it was it was a genocide. I mean, part of it was deliberate part of it was just slave traders being being obviously terrible slave traders. But you know, when you think you know, the population, the island was probably three to four to 5000 is never big, it was never big. And if you lose 1500 people in a slave raid you you have
Rod 55:24
your king son there, etc like that that's gonna have an impact. But also I mean, so to speak slavery I understand like there's there's an impetus there's an economic reason for I'm not saying I agree with it, but let you kind of go alright, you were doing that for this reason. The other stuff I mean, like we're doing it for God and once you you know, have our our God amongst you, then you're a good person. I understand the idea as much as it sickens me to my core, but the dudes to what pulled up the potatoes and binary villages just to make them have a shit time and putting the survivors in a camp for a century.
Will 56:00
I know.
Rod 56:02
Because why?
Will 56:03
and then blaming them for it. Why do you fucking monsters?
Rod 56:07
What do you get out of it? What's in it for you? Like, I don't even understand from the perspective of self interest.
Will 56:11
So there you go. Don't
Rod 56:14
Don't, don't
Will 56:15
don't do that. But also don't choose evidence as Jared Diamond clearly did. That fits your story in advance as much as I do agree with his argument that maybe we humans might use up our resources and might cause problems
Rod 56:30
Well we're giving it a crack. That's true.
Will 56:31
That's a big thing. We got to worry about it. But the Easter Island lesson, the lesson is Don't fucking kill people and lie about it.
Rod 56:39
Damn it, so I have to admit you kill a person. Yep.
Will 56:43
Um, yes, I did awesome sources for this. So Benny pies pises article that was the one that I said in Environment, Energy and Environment. Something fruity was called from genocide to Ecocide and so he's really the rape of Napa Rapanui proof there's the DiNapoli crema lipo and wreath and hunt approximate Bayesian computation of radiocarbon and Palio environmental records show population resilience and Rapanui long, long science titled Lagos turn to the real and yeah, I'll put some other sources up there on the
Rod 57:16
rapamycin I think was discovered in the soil it's a particular kind of active ingredient which I think is good for longevity stuff etc rapamycin eat some Rapanui like it came from that island. The creatures were found in the soil there I do believe there's a lot going on in that island. So luckily we killed it.
Will 57:34
I was gonna do a story about longevity for you. I couldn't do it entirely. Next year, stories ah, wholesome show is the show that you just listened to or watched. Me Will Grant
Rod 57:49
Me, not Will Grant
Will 57:51
is brought to you by the Australian National Centre for the public awareness of don't do genocide and pretend it was their fault.
Rod 57:58
Genocide is
Will 57:59
their fault.
